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What makes the Raptors wider?

BigMeatsBronco

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Back to the subject at hand, I have great experience with Bronco Raptor parts specifically the suspension parts because I'm using all of them on a regular Bronco. As stated in other threads the BRaptor is 3" wide per side at the wheel mounting surface. This means that in the front, the tie rods are longer the CV shafts are longer, both upper and lower arms are longer, and of course the rear axle is wider as well.

To answer the OPs question, yes you can use RRaptor parts to make your Bronco wider. However, I have run into many, many issues and don't suggest this for people looking for a bolt on solution unless you choose the ranger Raptor parts. The ranger Raptor parts are completely compatible with the Broncos and will bolt on directly with no modifications except for the lower shock mount.

As far as wheel spacers go, at the four-wheel drive shop I used to work at some guys would run these elaborate oversized 5-in wide spacers so they could run sand paddle tires... (the axles that failed has nothing to do with lift kits), just the leverage that the extra length of the spacer puts on the semi float AXLE SHAFTS themselves, not the wheel bearing., caused deflection. When a cylinderic shaft is rotated at a high speed like an axle or Driveline is , the center point wants to wobble out side of the Centerline by nature. Add some additional leverage at the end of the shaft and you can see how that the middle of the axle shaft will do the high-speed oscillation/deflection at greater degree., than with a smaller leveraged load. Eventually adding to the reason the axle shaft broke in the first place. Obviously a full floating axle situation would completely eliminate this issue.
This why spicer and other manufacturers agree that on a semi float axle, 40-in tires are the maximum not because of the wheel bearing itself but because of the axle deflection inside of the rear tube especially under load.
I have been running 2-in wide spacers in the front ( to matche ultimate 60 rear) for the past year while finalizing my BRaptor front suspension parts build. I can't wait to get them off soon enough, not because that I risk the wheel bearings or something breaking but because of the ridiculous scrub radius that they add.
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timhood

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The training and experience of mechanics who have been there, done that for decades.

Most specifically when you have seen hundreds, if not thousands of vehicles over several decades and can do math beyond your hands and toes.

Trust, but verify. I don't claim to be the be-all, end-all. I can only report what I've experienced.

Some can't be convinced though. I get it. I wouldn't blindly trust me either.
One can also do the math to calculate the added stresses. 🙂 But my guess is your non-scientific results hold enough validity that it isn't necessary. Considering how few vehicles, percentage-wise, have spacers, you likely saw a far higher failure rate than expected for such a low percentage of vehicles with them installed. In layman's terms, if 1% of vehicles have them installed but 50% of the failures are with vehicles with spacers, that suggests a substantially higher failure rate attributable to the use of spacers. (Statistics made up to illustrate a point.)
 

RIDE

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Back to the subject at hand, I have great experience with Bronco Raptor parts specifically the suspension parts because I'm using all of them on a regular Bronco…
Best response I’ve seen so far (including my own). Fully agree with cause and effect of spacers and would add we experienced premature replacement of both upper and lower ball joints and some steering/alignment components from trucks with spacers/adapters.
 

87-Z28

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The issue with the front ifs and spacers on the Bronco comes down to scrub radius. Adding a 30 mm spacer to the +30 mm offset SAS wheels is identical to a 0 offset wheel. Only the spacer introduces an unnecessary interface that needs to be properly designed and assembles to handle the loads. A properly designed spacer will be identical to the wheel with same offset.

however, increasing scrub radius will induce additional bending moment due to increased moment arm of applied loading. The braptor increases length of both LCA and UCA to achieve increased wheel travel from shock motion (increased motion ratio). Call it 3” increased control arm lengths. This necessarily also moves wheel knuckle by 3” and thus readjusts kingpin axis to maintain proper scrub radius. Of course both tierods and cv half shafts also increase in length to reach knuckle. It should be noted that increased motion ratios induce increased wheel travel but also induce increased loads. Thus all parts in load path need to be beefed up.

now suppose the same increase in track width was achieved by adding a 3” wheel spacer leaving the LCA and UCA geometry untouched. This will drastically increase the scrub radius since king pin axis was unaltered. Thereby adding an increased moment arm that induces bending moments. A simple thought exercise of adding a 10 foot spacer can illustrate the drastic increased scrub radius that occurs. Increasing scrub radius via spacers is the concern on loading and longevity.
 

RIDE

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I largely agree here…
First off, obviously the topic is something you happen to feel strongly about and for respect of OP, maybe consider starting a dedicated thread for this.
Second, I think we’re talking about different things. In my world, wheel spacers (also adapters) come with their own lugs/studs attached. Wheel shims are similar but slide onto/over existing wheel lugs/studs. While both serve a similar function, they have their own pros and cons but are somewhat different. My experience and reply dealt specifically with a spacer (adapter technically) where one of the wheel stud’s ability to grip the spacer itself failed due to metal fatigue and/or corrosive galvanization and spun freely when trying to remove the lugnut, thus preventing us to remove a blown tire while out in our field of work.
And yes, when compared to steel, my experience with aluminum is it’s much more brittle, thus doesn’t like being flexed multiple times.
 

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swamp2

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Yes, apologies for so much off topic discussion. Lots of folks are obviously opinionated about spacers.

I did answer the OPs initial question thoroughly and accurately in the very first reply.
 

TLO

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I probably won’t go this route - haven’t researched it at all, yet. But considering my options because the thought of tipping really makes me anxious out there.
Spacers are never a good idea... Either is changing the wheel offset (on the front)
You're moving the contact patch away from the turn centerpoint which can cause all kinds of issues, least of which is a lot more potential strain on the tierods/rack.
The Raptor goes wider the proper way...basically Longer control arms/rear axle.
 

EasternSierra

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Spacers are never a good idea... Either is changing the wheel offset (on the front)
You're moving the contact patch away from the turn centerpoint which can cause all kinds of issues, least of which is a lot more potential strain on the tierods/rack.
The Raptor goes wider the proper way...basically Longer control arms/rear axle.
What about going from the factory +55 offset on the Bronco to a +30 offset which is what the Sasquatch comes with from the factory? The Sas I test-drove handled just great.

Maybe there will be some sort of eventual effect on wear and tear given a huge number of miles. However, we're not seeing Sas Broncos with factory offset having premature bearing etc. failures on this forum AFAIK even after a lot of miles.
 

a.smith

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What about going from the factory +55 offset on the Bronco to a +30 offset which is what the Sasquatch comes with from the factory? The Sas I test-drove handled just great.

Maybe there will be some sort of eventual effect on wear and tear given a huge number of miles. However, we're not seeing Sas Broncos with factory offset having premature bearing etc. failures on this forum AFAIK even after a lot of miles.
The larger diameter of the 35" tire along with the additional offset should keep the scrub radius similar I think
 

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2020FordRaptor

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New tractors use spacers as a standard way to widen the rear axle these days to help with rollover. It definitely makes a difference.
Tractors are going to be totally different than a Bronco. How big are those spacers too? Bet you not around 1” like the safe spacers are for the Broncos.
 

87-Z28

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What about going from the factory +55 offset on the Bronco to a +30 offset which is what the Sasquatch comes with from the factory? The Sas I test-drove handled just great.

Maybe there will be some sort of eventual effect on wear and tear given a huge number of miles. However, we're not seeing Sas Broncos with factory offset having premature bearing etc. failures on this forum AFAIK even after a lot of miles.
The larger diameter of the 35" tire along with the additional offset should keep the scrub radius similar I think
the king pin axis is an imaginary line that travels through both the LCA and UCA attachment points on the wheel knuckle. The UCA knuckle attachment point is further inward than the LCA knuckle attachment, so the axis is slightly off vertical (it has some camber and caster). I think the king pin axis is between 20-25 degrees in the camber plane.

The distance between the tire centerline and the king pin axis intersection with the ground surface defines the scrub radius. So as tire diameter increases, the tire centerline needs to move outward to maintain scrub radius. Hence the decreased offset wheel for SAS.

Decreasing effective wheel offset with spacers and maintaining same tire size will increase scrub radius.
 
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Trav_Brap

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This is not spacer related but depicts via visual some of the differences on the raptor courtesy of the Bronco raptor off rodeo (which is a fantastic reason to spring for the raptor; that experience is top notch!)

Ford Bronco What makes the Raptors wider? IMG_5725
 

ThatWilsonGuy

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Stated another way the body itself is a normal 4-door. There is flare, suspension, tire changes to get you width differences.
Not sure if this already got mentioned later in this thread but the fenders are Raptor specific and part of what makes the body wider on top of the flares.

Ford Bronco What makes the Raptors wider? 1000017846
 

BroncoZan

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Not sure if this already got mentioned later in this thread but the fenders are Raptor specific and part of what makes the body wider on top of the flares.

1000017846.jpg
Thank you for correcting me. It’s subtle but no doubt about it another different part! Thanks for the good catch.
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