What makes the Raptors wider?

[HoosierDaddy]

I worked in a tire/suspension shop and saw plenty of failures caused by them. Mostly roasted wheel bearings and broken studs.

The "I've never had any problems" always shot louder on the internet though.

LOL, prior to you, about all I've ever read is stuff equivalent to ..."Well, I was running 40's on muh 1/2 ton 5 lug wheels with spacers ...and damned if it didn't ..... while I was bashing through the canyons...."
or
"I heard from my second cousins ex-wifes former boyfriend, who was a mechanic at a dealer..."

Now , this was many moons ago, while doing a deep dive on "hub vs lug centric wheels", I eventually dug up a forum created by and for ASE Engineers and they mostly did not have an issue with spacers ... BUT... the huge caveat is they have to be high quality, properly engineered pieces, which they felt most of the aftermarket versions, are not.

Now , here is where the shit usually starts flying ...

(pulls pin, drops grenade, leaves the chat)

the group basically all agreed that aluminum is absolutely NOT the proper material for wheel spacers. It is way too soft for the type and amount of stresses involved.

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[HighVelocity]

LOL, prior to you, about all I've ever read is stuff equivalent to ..."Well, I was running 40's on muh 1/2 ton 5 lug wheels with spacers ...and damned if it didn't ..... while I was bashing through the canyons...."
or
"I heard from my second cousins ex-wifes former boyfriend, who was a mechanic at a dealer..."

Now , this was many moons ago, while doing a deep dive on "hub vs lug centric wheels", I eventually dug up a forum created by and for ASE Engineers and they mostly did not have an issue with spacers ... BUT... the huge caveat is they have to be high quality, properly engineered pieces, which they felt most of the aftermarket versions, are not.

Now , here is where the shit usually starts flying ...

(pulls pin, drops grenade, leaves the chat)

the group basically all agreed that aluminum is absolutely NOT the proper material for wheel spacers. It is way too soft for the type and amount of stresses involved.

I suspect that the majority of the ones I saw fail were from 2nd + owners of the vehicle. The people who installed or had them installed didn't keep the vehicle long enough to see the failures themselves, thus the "it's all good" opinions you see.

And yes, if memory serves, the aluminum ones were the most common to fail. I remember some basically welded themselves to the brake drum/rotor as well.

 

[Valhalla]

To the OP, I run 37" pizza cutters and have been at a 27* lean on a 2 dr. If you are inside of this I think you are fine.

 

[swamp2]

I worked in a tire/suspension shop and saw plenty of failures caused by them. Mostly roasted wheel bearings and broken studs.

The "I've never had any problems" always shout louder on the internet though.

Curious to know about your ability to determine cause and effect. Do wheel bearing never fail without them? Again, were lugs/studs properly up sized and checked for thread engagement lengths? I'll go out on a limb and say no, certainly to the latter. Did they meet my requirements of some reasonable amount of spacing? Was there any control vehicle to determine what is normal and was it driven the same way with same number of miles?

People have a way of making over reaching assumptions and conclusions when dealing with non cause and effect occurrences with very small data sets. This also happens "on the Internet".

I, plenty of my buddies and plenty of forum buddies have ran them with zero issues, on and off road for lots of miles and hard driving.

Lastly are you aware that OEM wheel bearings can accommodate different factory offset wheels? The loads on the bearings are identical with an offset equivalent to a spacer.

 

[swamp2]

LOL, prior to you, about all I've ever read is stuff equivalent to ..."Well, I was running 40's on muh 1/2 ton 5 lug wheels with spacers ...and damned if it didn't ..... while I was bashing through the canyons...."
or
"I heard from my second cousins ex-wifes former boyfriend, who was a mechanic at a dealer..."

Now , this was many moons ago, while doing a deep dive on "hub vs lug centric wheels", I eventually dug up a forum created by and for ASE Engineers and they mostly did not have an issue with spacers ... BUT... the huge caveat is they have to be high quality, properly engineered pieces, which they felt most of the aftermarket versions, are not.

Now , here is where the shit usually starts flying ...

(pulls pin, drops grenade, leaves the chat)

the group basically all agreed that aluminum is absolutely NOT the proper material for wheel spacers. It is way too soft for the type and amount of stresses involved.

While I agree with most of your post, and speaking as a Mechanical Engineer myself, aluminum is absolutely fine for spacers. What are the wheels themselves made of? Most often cast aluminum. A good old 6061-T6 or better yet 2024 or 7075 are typically stronger than ones wheels themselves (almost always). Are you also aware that 7075 aluminum is stronger than mild steel?

 

[HighVelocity]

Curious to know about your ability to determine cause and effect.

The training and experience of mechanics who have been there, done that for decades.

Most specifically when you have seen hundreds, if not thousands of vehicles over several decades and can do math beyond your hands and toes.

Trust, but verify. I don't claim to be the be-all, end-all. I can only report what I've experienced.

Some can't be convinced though. I get it. I wouldn't blindly trust me either.

 

[Brian_B]

Most often cast aluminum. A good old 6061-T6 or better yet 2024 or 7075 are typically stronger than ones wheels themselves (almost always). Are you also aware that 7075 aluminum is stronger than mild steel?

This is all true, but you are talking some very specific grades of metal.

I doubt the made in China spacers are made from anything better than recycled soda cans though.

 

[swamp2]

The training and experience of mechanics who have been there, done that for decades.

Most specifically when you have seen hundreds, if not thousands of vehicles over several decades and can do math beyond your hands and toes.

Trust, but verify. I don't claim to be the be-all, end-all. I can only report what I've experienced.

Some can't be convinced though. I get it. I wouldn't blindly trust me either.

So you've seen hundreds of wheel spacer failures?

And again, critically, they were examined for proper lug bolt/nut length and engagement and other important fit details?

It's just like mechanics who will say, "Oh no, don't you dare lift your vehicle or put larger tires on. You will break your tie rods, wear out your tires, rub everywhere and the springs will sag". Sure all of those can and absolutely do happen, but does it mean such an enhancement is inherently bad and unfeasible?

 

[HighVelocity]

So you've seen hundreds of wheel spacer failures?

And again, critically, they were examined for proper lug bolt/nut length and engagement and other important fit details?

It's just like mechanics who will say, "Oh no, font you dare lift your vehicle or put larger tires on. You will break your tie rods, wear out your tires, rub everyehere and the springs will sag". Sure all of those can and absolutely do happen, but does it mean such an enhancement is inherently bad and unfeasible?

Some just can't see beyond the religion.

 

[swamp2]

Some just can't see beyond the religion.

And some can't see their own biases and fallacies of generalization.

 

[HighVelocity]

And some can't see their own biases and fallacies of generalization.

Some have personal experiences that drive their direction.

 

[swamp2]

Some have personal experiences that drive their direction.

And your conclusions are always correct? I see, you're infallible. Lucky you.

You seriously don't see any relevance/comparison/similarity with poor parts and poorly executed lifts ax I described above?

And what shall I do with my contradictory personal experience?

 

[HighVelocity]

And your conclusions are always correct? I see, you're infallible. Lucky you.

You seriously don't see any relevance/comparison/similarity with poor parts and poorly executed lifts ax I described above?

You're drawing the conclusion that your position is assumed the correct one.

I can only speak for my personal and professional experience. Others may vary, and I'm OK with that.

 

[swamp2]

You're drawing the conclusion that your position is assumed the correct one.

I can only speak for my personal experience. Others may vary, and I'm OK with that.

Don't care to answer my question about lifting and all the stuff that can and does go wrong with it? Are lifts inherently bad and unfeasible?

 

[HighVelocity]

Don't care to answer my question about lifting and all the stuff that can and does go wrong with it? Ard lifts inherently bad and unfeasible?

Your what hurts?

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