Turn Offroad Portals

[userdude]

Nah. Figuring him out took me longer than I’d like to admit but I learned he’s not the kind of person I care to associate with.

Is there a bronco bat signal for the rubicon? A bronco signal?

Interesting. I remember there was somebody on here a while back that was very negative about all that and got pooh poohed. I guess live and learn.

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[userdude]

When Portal Jesus has to fart, he sayeth to the tire, "pull thy finger"?!?

 

[SierraBronco]

Interesting. I remember there was somebody on here a while back that was very negative about all that and got pooh poohed. I guess live and learn.

Yeah I can’t remember who it was. Another inflooencer that maybe had a channel with him? Perhaps my memory is off as I don’t know that he got poo-pooed, just at the time I didn’t have anything negative to say based on my experiences in person.

 

[userdude]

Yeah I can’t remember who it was. Another inflooencer that maybe had a channel with him? Perhaps my memory is off as I don’t know that he got poo-pooed, just at the time I didn’t have anything negative to say based on my experiences in person.

I hereby trademarkify the copyrightable "infloowencher". Dibs!

 

[Dtrimpi87]

Looks killer!

How’d the portals affect your mpg so far?

MPG? Shit to none. Kidding. So far seems to be about the same as before portals when I had 37's. Around 13.5 average. I dont know how I see so many people claiming 18+ on these things. Even when I had the Stock "35's" id be lucky to get 16ish. Maybe it's where I live. My Bronco is not a commuter so it just sits unless I drive it around town on the weekends or go hit the trails. The latter of which requires climbing mountain grades for miles at highway speeds.

The portals and 40's did pretty much correct my speedometer without any computer changes. With the 37's at 70 MPH on the speedo, GPS readings would be 76-77 mph. Now at 70 on the speedo GPS is about 72.

 

[SierraBronco]

MPG? Shit to none. Kidding. So far seems to be about the same as before portals when I had 37's. Around 13.5 average. I dont know how I see so many people claiming 18+ on these things. Even when I had the Stock "35's" id be lucky to get 16ish. Maybe it's where I live. My Bronco is not a commuter so it just sits unless I drive it around town on the weekends or go hit the trails. The latter of which requires climbing mountain grades for miles at highway speeds.

The portals and 40's did pretty much correct my speedometer without any computer changes. With the 37's at 70 MPH on the speedo, GPS readings would be 76-77 mph. Now at 70 on the speedo GPS is about 72.

The people on portals claiming 18+ are running stock abs setups with a higher gear reduction. Example-computer shows 85 mph but they’re only doing 65. (Or whatever it would be based on the tire size increase taken out of the gear reduction) They know their speedo is off but don’t factor that into the fuel economy also being thrown off.

 

[5GENIDN]

The people on portals claiming 18+ are running stock abs sensors with a higher gear reduction. Example-computer shows 85 mph but they’re only doing 65. (Or whatever it would be based on the tire size increase taken out of the gear reduction) They know their speedo is off but don’t factor that into the fuel economy also being thrown off.

Rolling resistance.... It is not the portals, it is the tires.... Yes portals probably rob a small amount of driveline resistance 3% MAYBE..... Helical gears are going to be MUCH worse.... but it is the tires we put on after that really robs the mpg.

Yea I get about 12.5ish.... It is my tires... oh and my right foot.

 

[userdude]

Rolling resistance.... It is not the portals, it is the tires.... Yes portals probably rob a small amount of driveline resistance 3% MAYBE..... Helical gears are going to be MUCH worse.... but it is the tires we put on after that really robs the mpg.

Yea I get about 12.5ish.... It is my tires... oh and my right foot.

You mean those 67x17.50R17 sticky icky's mess with gas mileage. No way!! There are no downsides to portals after all, you've proven it right there. It's not the portals, it's the TIRES!!

 

[Fordified1]

MPG? Shit to none. Kidding. So far seems to be about the same as before portals when I had 37's. Around 13.5 average. I dont know how I see so many people claiming 18+ on these things. Even when I had the Stock "35's" id be lucky to get 16ish. Maybe it's where I live. My Bronco is not a commuter so it just sits unless I drive it around town on the weekends or go hit the trails. The latter of which requires climbing mountain grades for miles at highway speeds.

The portals and 40's did pretty much correct my speedometer without any computer changes. With the 37's at 70 MPH on the speedo, GPS readings would be 76-77 mph. Now at 70 on the speedo GPS is about 72.

It really is largely about how you drive. I was averaging 17.5 in sport mode on 93octane in a rural area with intermittent highway runs and when I went from 35’s to 37’s, mpg’s dropped to 15.5-16. I have never really cared about fuel mileage and hell, anything gets better than my V-10 Excursion and boat. But a week after installing the 37’s (and my work tracking me and giving me shit about how I drive my company truck) I decided to do a driver attitude adjustment and started driving like grandma. Didn’t really change my top speeds that much, but started going way easier on the go pedal, and even started using eco, which really only adjusts your shift points and throttle response. I now am averaging 18+ and actually enjoy the challenge of keeping it there. Plus when the wife or daughter drive it, I can give them shit about knocking the average down because of their aggressive driving styles. (Yes me the pot calling out the kettles). When I get bored with the mpg challenge I’ll go back to my aggressive driving habits of course….at least in my personal vehicle.

 

[5GENIDN]

You mean those 67x17.50R17 sticky icky's mess with gas mileage. No way!! There are no downsides to portals after all, you've proven it right there. It's not the portals, it's the TIRES!!

Well considering an opinion is not "Proof" of anything....

I am confident that the mechanical loss of running your power through an extra set of straight cut gears is not going to be a significant drain on MPG.... It will be some, but I would GUESS less than 3 percent. AND since I have approximately a 25 percent loss in MPG the only remaining factors are going to be rolling resistance and aerodynamics. I would further venture a guess that since I was already driving a rolling brick.... I am guessing that the majority of that loss is due to the tires.

Just theoretical deductions based on probabilities.

But I believe the questions was how do portals effect gas mileage. Short of physical measurements it is the best I can come up with.

As far as downsides to portals, I think they are numerous and often cited in these discussions. there are pros and cons to everything.

 

[Snacktime]

It is interesting to hear that the 10% turn gear reduction has no mpg penalties as I the math says you want 20%+ reduction with a 40" tire. A lot can be deducted from mileage on the dash vs strain on the drivetrain.

Biggest Con in my book is the long term serviceability and parts availability. Proprietary brake rotors, one off machined bearing parts and custom rear axles being available 4-5 years down the road. Currently I view portals as a bolt on item that will be thrown away after use. You might get lucky and get a rebuild down the road but ultimately they are going to be scrapped at some point.

 

[Dtrimpi87]

It is interesting to hear that the 10% turn gear reduction has no mpg penalties as I the math says you want 20%+ reduction with a 40" tire. A lot can be deducted from mileage on the dash vs strain on the drivetrain.

Biggest Con in my book is the long term serviceability and parts availability. Proprietary brake rotors, one off machined bearing parts and custom rear axles being available 4-5 years down the road. Currently I view portals as a bolt on item that will be thrown away after use. You might get lucky and get a rebuild down the road but ultimately they are going to be scrapped at some point.

I don't know how all the math works out but from what I understand they went with their 11% reduction to be able to run 38's with the 4.70 gearing and have it feel and act like the factory "35's". So I could be totally wrong, but with the same reduction, the 40's are essentially equivalent to when I was running 37's, just wider and a tad heavier. After my seat time so far, my butt dyno concurs. It feels and drives just like it did on 37's pre portals.

From what Cole told me at their open house they will be stocking every part in house for fast replacement should anyone need anything which is bound to happen. I guess as long as Turn stays in business hopefully it wont be an issue. With as much as they have going on right now I dont see them disappearing anytime soon hopefully. As long as they are reliable for what I do (only time will tell) i'll probably have moved on to a different vehicle by the time parts availability gets questionable.

After going through the install and having them in hand the build quality seems top notch, but im no engineer. The only concerns I have so far about them is the fact they bolt to the stock knuckles. Hopefully there will be more knuckle options in the future

 

[Snacktime]

I don't know how all the math works out but from what I understand they went with their 11% reduction to be able to run 38's with the 4.70 gearing and have it feel and act like the factory "35's". So I could be totally wrong, but with the same reduction, the 40's are essentially equivalent to when I was running 37's, just wider and a tad heavier. After my seat time so far, my butt dyno concurs. It feels and drives just like it did on 37's pre portals.

From what Cole told me at their open house they will be stocking every part in house for fast replacement should anyone need anything which is bound to happen. I guess as long as Turn stays in business hopefully it wont be an issue. With as much as they have going on right now I dont see them disappearing anytime soon hopefully. As long as they are reliable for what I do (only time will tell) i'll probably have moved on to a different vehicle by the time parts availability gets questionable.

After going through the install and having them in hand the build quality seems top notch, but im no engineer. The only concerns I have so far about them is the fact they bolt to the stock knuckles. Hopefully there will be more knuckle options in the future

You actually want more reduction with bigger tires to offset the rotational mass more than the tire height. Math wise the extra reduction helps offset friction loss from the added gears, bearings and fluid losses. That extra 5% friction loss might need 7%-10% reduction to have a net zero effect.

Broncbozo also made a statement about having parts availability. Question becomes when the need arises if there is parts available. Remember one small defect can wipe out an entire parts supply. The other issue is the 74Weld rolling out several revisions, now you are looking at stock multiple hard parts to maintain older designs.

I like Cole but products like portals are a leap of faith.

 

[userdude]

You actually want more reduction with bigger tires to offset the rotational mass more than the tire height. Math wise the extra reduction helps offset friction loss from the added gears, bearings and fluid losses. That extra 5% friction loss might need 7%-10% reduction to have a net zero effect.

Broncbozo also made a statement about having parts availability. Question becomes when the need arises if there is parts available. Remember one small defect can wipe out an entire parts supply. The other issue is the 74Weld rolling out several revisions, now you are looking at stock multiple hard parts to maintain older designs.

I like Cole but products like portals are a leap of faith.

I remember watching Shark Tank I think and someone had some stylish thing they were hawking and Damen what's-his-face was obviously the target of the pitch. He was like, what plan do you have for what you can't sell?

"Oh we have full orders for the next 18 months".

"After that?"

"Well, we're working on it but we think we'll have even more."

"Ok, what about year four when you don't sell 10% of years 1/2/3? Sizes are funny, you always don't sell some. You start renting space. Year four you sell 70% of twice as much stock, now you have to store that too. You're still making a lot of money, you think, until years 6-8, when warehouse costs start to add up, landfills won't take it, African countries don't want it, and you're wondering if you can dump it in the ocean in year ten and still eek out a little profit and not go bankrupt. It's hard. Have you thought of that? Nobody plans for when stuff doesn't sell, or gets ruined. The stock you can't sell robs you and you don't see it coming."

Indeed.

 

[Snacktime]

I remember watching Shark Tank I think and someone had some stylish thing they were hawking and Damen what's-his-face was obviously the target of the pitch. He was like, what plan do you have for what you can't sell?

"Oh we have full orders for the next 18 months".

"After that?"

"Well, we're working on it but we think we'll have even more."

"Ok, what about year four when you don't sell 10% of years 1/2/3? Sizes are funny, you always don't sell some. You start renting space. Year four you sell 70% of twice as much stock, now you have to store that too. You're still making a lot of money, you think, until years 6-8, when warehouse costs start to add up, landfills won't take it, African countries don't want it, and you're wondering if you can dump it in the ocean in year ten and still eek out a little profit and not go bankrupt. It's hard. Have you thought of that? Nobody plans for when stuff doesn't sell, or gets ruined. The stock you can't sell robs you and you don't see it coming."

Indeed.

Looking at the jeep aftermarket axle market and the take rate. Locally I will see at least 1 axle swapped jeep a day if not more. If this carried over to the portal market the math is there. At least for 7-8 years as the older the rig gets the less someone is willing to put more than the vehicle cost into the vehicle.

But you hit the nail on the head, at some point the market dies for portals. Look how many set of 4WP coilovers are still flooding the market.

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