Neutral Tow / Transmission Problem

[aknavy]

I predict a class action suit here...Fords lack of response is a disgrace to the brand.

maybe I'll get extra rental car coverage on my extended warrantees, then go get ready do flat tow job... after videoing my favorite stealership showing me the "proper" way of settng up flat tow....videoing my towing and the 7+ seconds I sit with the brakes on at the stop sign while the system fails. Then Ill drag the damaged/grenaded transmission ridden truck back to the dealership and videotape their reaction. It'd be a good chance for my video to go viral I've always been looking for one of those anyway and Ford would reap the rewards of having to replace every single one of these that fails. And reimburse people for rental cars and Towing/ vacation Adventures That Failed.

It would be epic. If you're willing to sacrifice for the greater good....

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[aknavy]

Finally have confirmation that I dodged the bullet:

On the downside, I missed a lemon law claim by a couple of days. If it goes in for another issue I'll make it to the 30 day out of service mark.

 

[dgorsett]

...Another item for a poll: What type of brake system, inertia or signal (electrical or air) from towing vehicle. My inertial system seldom activates and when it does is never? for seven seconds or more. It releases when inertial event ceases, at stop or gentler brake application.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

Its been known or those that go out enough, the Bronco gets into "stupid" modes sometimes and a battery reset on the trail fixes it, but if you dont know that, you might be screwed. The last time I was out, one of them was "stuck" in 4L, which obviously would be a nightmare to get home.

I carry a laptop whenever off road to hookup forscan and fix or reset shit....good as having a big ass snap on tool box stuff full, on board in the old days....ROFL

 

[aknavy]

Well, I got our Bronco back from the dealership. When I asked the service manager about what caused the self destruction, they said they had no idea. They also said they could not determine if it was or was not put into neutral tow correctly. So, for everyone else out there, it doesn't appear to be an easy determination. For me, they replaced transfercase and transmission. I no longer own the Bronco, as flat towing is a requirement for me.

 

[GddyupGG]

Consider yourself lucky if Ford covered it. Hopefully they see the writing on the wall and a class action is coming their way if this continues.

 

[aknavy]

Consider yourself lucky if Ford covered it. Hopefully they see the writing on the wall and a class action is coming their way if this continues.

Very lucky. I was resigned to paying for it. Their coverage blunted the loss in trading in a three month old vehicle. It was painful, but not that painful.

 

[swamp2]

Good thread on this topic with a poll here, please participate:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...nsmissions-on-bronco-after-flat-towing.83489/

 

[Tricky Mike]

I was googling something somewhat related to this and found an article specifically stating that manual transmission are just as problematic because the gear oil circulation is based off of the engine shaft side of rotation and not the driveline side. (Now this is on the internet so I'll take it with a grain of salt)

I'm with you. I think the transfer case is the key here.

I wonder if one could put the transfer case in neutral and then disconnect the gear connection so it physically could not engage it back? Or is it so electronic that there is not even something you could disconnect?

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could just pull a fuse/relay and kill all electronics involved in shifting the tcase?

If this is a viable failsafe, it would take very little to sever the hot wire to the shift motor and put it on a switch. Hell, it would take much to make a pigtail that's plug n play in between the harness and motor so no modifications would be needed.

I'm still trying to figure out 100% if the 7MT is excluded from this issue.

 

[gweberg29]

Hello all. We recently purchased a used (1600 miles) 2013 Badlands SAS , that someone traded in for a Raptor. We were planning on towing, as we have our old 99 Dodge Dakoda for years. Lucky all manual, no electronics.


I hear everyone. I hope someone figures out the issue and a work around is found. I hope that keeping the battery charged is the work around and someone can prove it.

My observation is that the issue has to be the tcase is going back into gear and then the transmission is being cooked as it is not being lubricated on the output shaft. Does this sound correct? But of course, why is the question.

I think that If the transmission where to go back into park, then the front wheels would not track. Is this correct for these new push button vehicles?

If this is a tcase neutral shift, how is this happening on a lack of power if an actuator is used? Would it not take power to cause it to acuate the actuator and disengage the tcase? Perhaps it happens under low power for safety!?

Also on the transmission, does this whole computer electronic tow mode thing only effect the tcase? If so, how can the transmission be involved in this causing this issue?

But the begging question is why is the tcase apparently locked in tow mode?

Any or all of the cases documented in this thread, is the battery dead when this issue is discovered?

I am by no means any kind of expert. Thanks for any reply. BTW, happy new year.

 

[dgorsett]

Hello all. We recently purchased a used (1600 miles) 2013 Badlands SAS , that someone traded in for a Raptor. We were planning on towing, as we have our old 99 Dodge Dakoda for years. Lucky all manual, no electronics.


I hear everyone. I hope someone figures out the issue and a work around is found. I hope that keeping the battery charged is the work around and someone can prove it.

My observation is that the issue has to be the tcase is going back into gear and then the transmission is being cooked as it is not being lubricated on the output shaft. Does this sound correct? But of course, why is the question.

I think that If the transmission where to go back into park, then the front wheels would not track. Is this correct for these new push button vehicles?

If this is a tcase neutral shift, how is this happening on a lack of power if an actuator is used? Would it not take power to cause it to acuate the actuator and disengage the tcase? Perhaps it happens under low power for safety!?

Also on the transmission, does this whole computer electronic tow mode thing only effect the tcase? If so, how can the transmission be involved in this causing this issue?

But the begging question is why is the tcase apparently locked in tow mode?

Any or all of the cases documented in this thread, is the battery dead when this issue is discovered?

I am by no means any kind of expert. Thanks for any reply. BTW, happy new year.

I don't think anyone knows what's happening exactly. By the damage descriptions your statement that the transfer case is somehow not in tow mode is correct. The battery charge was one theory, so I put a charge line on mine, but by no means proven. My Jeep the transmission was left in park and steering unlocked by turning the key, I am assuming the Bronco is left in transmission neutral to free the steering, that makes Tow mode verification difficult.

Just follow the instructions, be observant and hope for the best.

 

[gweberg29]

Hi dgorsett. Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree, I was first interred by the thought of a power problem. But no one said that their batteries where dead.

I tried hard to follow this thread. Starting on the other thread now. Been flat towing for a long time, over 25,000 miles. I have been fortunate to tow an older vehicle before all this new electronic stuff. Being a retired IT guy, you would think I would love to drive the latest a greatest stuff. But, as an retired software guy, I know how technology can go wrong! I have always been nervous about the front tires not tracking or the rear tired locking up at 75 miles an hour. Yes I have seen both my tires fail to track (ignition key problem), and I did start out dragging the tires a few times. But again, this new high stuff is nuts. Very scary.

I really want to flat tow our new Bronco! Again, I tried very hard to methodically parse this very long thread. Wow. Its hard for a software guy that has worked for very small IT shops, to very large ones to believe this is a software problem left unfixed. I even worked for FORD Aerospace maintaining very mission critical DOD systems. Software is not designed, developed and tested by one person, except for maybe small IT shops. For this to still be an unsolved software problem that could lock up the back tires and kill someone, its hard to believe a large IT group like FORD would have let this go unsolved. But who knows.

But as a software guy, I tend to blame hardware. Talked extensively to neighbor about this yesterday. He is a real car/truck guy. Me, I'm a shade tree mechanic. But to him, it hard to understand how an actuator can actuate with out help. It seems it has to be the tcase going into gear and then spinning the transmission to it death. He said that would not take long. But why does the system say its still in tow mode. It appears that the system is unaware of the tcase state and is confused for a lack of a better explination.

Ok, how is this happening? Would love a work around. At this point, I do not see a FORD fix any time soon. Will we will continue to flat tow our old, but cherry, Dodge Dakota across the country, and trailer our new awesome Bronco to trail heads in the Rockies. Nowhere at the KOA type parks to handle a trailer, i.e unloading and loading a vehicle at will. Parking space for an unloaded trailer would be very hard to find from my experience. Not mention, the issues with gassing up. Seems a trailer would harder to track around the pumps.

P.S. With FORD putting the responsibility of making a warranty call on the dealers, they seem isolated from prostitution. And many dealers probably fear having to eat a transmission so much that they don't want to go that extra mile to fully research and document these claims. Its unethical.

 

[grtharris]

The issue I have found from the very beginning is there are so few of us towing, comparted to the number of just drivers, is hard to find anyone who understands what goes on when towing.
I had a real good work around before they made there software change. Now I'm still working on attempting to get my Brake Buddy Stealth to work without boost. Which is was not designed to do.
Don't understand why Ford wants the transmission in neutral unless they know there is some small chance the transfer case can re-encage.
Been looking for a good drawing of the transfer but have not found one. Do know the advance unit uses clutch plates and it is just not gears going in and out.
Have towed about 10K miles and no smoke yet.
Do know it is easy to miss a step when going into and out off tow mode (from a friend). So I use my check sheet every time.

 

[gweberg29]

Hi grharris,

First I agree, it is not possible to get the detail needed on this this thread let alone the other thread, way to chatter and very little real substance. This thread is a least has several testimonies, just not enough detail. After years of flat towing our old Dakota successfully, we just cannot bring ourselves to flat tow our new expensive Bronco.

You commented about a work around that not longer works. Do you mind sharing that with me and why you feel its not appropriate now. And how do you know you are getting updates in your driveway? I need to search the system for this information, but is there a feature to turn on update notifications?

Yes, if we were to ever flat tow our bronco, much research is needed on the braking systems. Our old Dokoda has an inertia system that pulls the brake pedal by a vacuum feed. Integrated braking systems sounds scary.

Yes on the transmission failure I agree.

Yes perhaps missing a step is possible, but I have major OCD and I'm too scared on missing a step. But still we are not ready now to take the step to flat tow our new bronco. Even with accepting we may have to be out 10k.

I wish so much for more detail. I am a problem solve my career and by having OCD. Oh well. I am just keep waiting for more detail. I ask anyone that had a this tranmissoin failure for more detail. We need to have constuctive conversation. I truely believe there is a problem here that is not caused by human error.

 

[zuke]

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand. I wouldn't think the transmission in Park would cause a transmission problem as it wouldn't be turning, the transfer case would still be in neutral with the oil pump operating so it should be happy. The issue would be potential steering lock up in a turn with transmission in Park.
My Jeep had you tow in transfer case in neutral, transmission in Park and key to unlock to prevent steering lock up. @gtharris, are you watching this thread? Thoughts?

No 6g Bronco has any kind of steering lock, Wranglers did away with steering lock half way through 2008, and haven't had one since. With Modern electronics, Transponder Keys, and Vehicle Immobilizers, steering that locks is just a redundant inconvenience, and most vehicle manufacturers did away with it years ago.

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