Neutral Tow / Transmission Problem

[mpeugeot]

Thank you for this. I started thinking another way to prove this is a Ford issue, is to have a voltage recorder on the Bronco and if you have one to try, cause a low voltage, record it, and see what the transmission does. This takes a lot of liability on the Bronco surviving, but this would be a test that Ford should have done and verify this is an issue. So, it seems to me, that if I include a 12-volt constant supply during towing, should resolve the mystery of transmission shifting. So I want to clarify, you put your Bronco in tow hauling and then you disconnected your battery. If we did this, then would the AF1 still work for locking up the brakes? I guess you would wire that direct so then it still has supply, but the Bronco Computer can't work.

When I flat towed my Bronco, I just relied on my truck brakes, because I wasn't going to be flat towing it on the regular. So thankfully, I didn't drain my battery.

Obviously, this isn't the correct way to do it. You would want the vehicle to brake automatically if it ever came loose of the truck. Still the F-150 had plenty of brakes for both vehicles.

I would have been absolutely beside myself if it destroyed the transmission and the warranty was denied. You all are braver than I am in this regard... I do a lot of stupid stuff to my Bronco, but I would not be flat towing it until I was sure that I could avoid damaging the transmission.

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[Bmadda]

I also have a question for you AT folks...what is the procedure to get the Bronco OUT of neutral tow on an AT? On mine I have to press the clutch and brake at the same time while holding the OK button, but you folks have no clutch pedal, and the brake is being actuated by the flat tow brake controller, so is it possible an accidental "OK" button message is all that is needed to take it out of neutral? or does the ebrake gotta be on or something else?

 

[63GBPackerfan]

1. Enter accessory mode: Push the ignition button once without your foot on the brake.
2. Depress the brake for approximately seven seconds.
3. Put the vehicle in Park.
4. Start the vehicle and put it in Drive and that’s what works for me. It has never failed coming out of Neutral tow.

 

[Bmadda]

1. Enter accessory mode: Push the ignition button once without your foot on the brake.
2. Depress the brake for approximately seven seconds.
3. Put the vehicle in Park.
4. Start the vehicle and put it in Drive and that’s what works for me. It has never failed coming out of Neutral tow.

So lets say somebody turned on accessory in the Bronco for whatever reason, while at the same time, someone is in the motorhome w/their foot on the brake pedal? I could see that possibly happening by accident...this is another scenario to test I think. My MT wouldn't shift out unless the clutch pedal is depressed...they shoulda built another failsafe into the AT I think

 

[aknavy]

You didn't read my post fully. MT in gear pushed by hand, not AT in N. Test w/AT in P (if it will allow that IDK, I don't have one to test). Proves EXACTLY that

It did go into park, and still rolled. But that was at the end of the day when I was trying to figure out what was going on, so transmission and transfer case were already destroyed. But the shift lever did go to park, and locked in there - so I had to do the manual release to get it back out.

I won't be doing any testing, as I figure I dodged the bullet on paying for a $10k repair and have zero desire to deal with it again. I will never tow it again.

 

[aknavy]

So lets say somebody turned on accessory in the Bronco for whatever reason, while at the same time, someone is in the motorhome w/their foot on the brake pedal? I could see that possibly happening by accident...this is another scenario to test I think. My MT wouldn't shift out unless the clutch pedal is depressed...they shoulda built another failsafe into the AT I think

Yeah, I think if it's in accessory and the brake pedal is depressed by whatever braking system you have, it could possibly come out of neutral tow. Too many what if's in this system with no fail safe lockout to trust it.

 

[dgorsett]

1. Enter accessory mode: Push the ignition button once without your foot on the brake.
2. Depress the brake for approximately seven seconds.
3. Put the vehicle in Park.
4. Start the vehicle and put it in Drive and that’s what works for me. It has never failed coming out of Neutral tow.

This. A few things I've noticed.
1. You do not get the neutral tow disabled message until it's in park, but I do get it immediately when it hits park.
2. You do not have to hold OK with the AT as @Bmadda said you do on a MT, i wish you did.
3. I never feel or hear the transfer case shift to or out of neutral, I would think I would at least sometimes.
4. I always tested my Jeep by starting and putting in drive to verify transfer case neutral. I wasn't sure you could do this with the Bronco, but I tested the other day, in the driveway and it worked. But still worry the act of testing, might inadvertently. cause a shift out of neutral tow.
5. I am very cautious to shut Acc mode off. I leave climate and radio on so i have lots of reminders. I am concerned that if Acc is on and the tow brake system activates for 7 seconds, the Bronco might initiate a neutral tow disable action. Also leaving Acc on would drain the battery.

 

[Bmadda]

It did go into park, and still rolled. But that was at the end of the day when I was trying to figure out what was going on, so transmission and transfer case were already destroyed. But the shift lever did go to park, and locked in there - so I had to do the manual release to get it back out.

I won't be doing any testing, as I figure I dodged the bullet on paying for a $10k repair and have zero desire to deal with it again. I will never tow it again.

I totally understand your apprehension...when I say test, I mean these scenarios can be tried w/out actually towing the vehicle. This way we can document the flaws in this system and prove that you guys are not at fault for this. I truly believe there is a design flaw here, and customers are being wrongly blamed for failures. I also believe we can simulate these flaws w/out damaging any more trannies. The xfer case is either in N or it isn't...doesn't matter what the dash says

 

[GDWSuperman]

I'm not 100% sure because 2.7 uses an electric brake pump. No battery voltage on a 2.7=no rear brakes. Mine is a 2.3, and I have never flat towed it. I'm also not familiar w/the AF1 flat tow setup. Either way it isn't the transmission shifting randomly during battery drain...that cant happen, it's the transfer case, which IS shifted by an electric motor that IS computer controlled. I would like to find a way to #1 PROVE that battery drain when flat towing is the cause of this problem, and #2 find a failsafe solution (it's doubtful Ford ever will if it's software related...nobody knows how to solve it then). If you do run a 12v source from the motorhome to the Bronco DO NOT FORGET that ground must be common between them! I would not rely on the physical hookup between the 2 vehicles, I would run a separate ground wire!

Yes. I understand what your saying. When the transfer case engages then the transmission engages. Understand about ground! I wish we could get a lawyer firm involved to help us test your theory so that they could then use the evidence to take them to court to repay all of us that has endured this. Thank you for your help and input!!!

1. Enter accessory mode: Push the ignition button once without your foot on the brake.
2. Depress the brake for approximately seven seconds.
3. Put the vehicle in Park.
4. Start the vehicle and put it in Drive and that’s what works for me. It has never failed coming out of Neutral tow.

Yes. This is what I do also.

 

[Bmadda]

This. A few things I've noticed.
1. You do not get the neutral tow disabled message until it's in park, but I do get it immediately when it hits park.
2. You do not have to hold OK with the AT as @Bmadda said you do on a MT, i wish you did.
3. I never feel or hear the transfer case shift to or out of neutral, I would think I would at least sometimes.
4. I always tested my Jeep by starting and putting in drive to verify transfer case neutral. I wasn't sure you could do this with the Bronco, but I tested the other day, in the driveway and it worked. But still worry the act of testing, might inadvertently. cause a shift out of neutral tow.
5. I am very cautious to shut Acc mode off. I leave climate and radio on so i have lots of reminders. I am concerned that if Acc is on and the tow brake system activates for 7 seconds, the Bronco might initiate a neutral tow disable action. Also leaving Acc on would drain the battery.

Mine times out on acc after 20 minutes or so (don't remember the exact time). I know it does cause I like to take the top off and crank the tunes while I'm cleaning the garage, or doing yardwork (Bronco is a very expensive, but cool boombox). So there is another potential failure point...customer has the vehicle all set up to flat tow, but never keys it off before leaving, and the motorhome has to wait at a light for more than 7 seconds...xfer case shifts out of neutral...customer drives cross country w/no knowledge he is grinding his tranny to slag the whole way! While this would "technically" be user error...it's WAY too easy to make that mistake...there NEEDS to be better failsafe than that!

 

[aknavy]

Mine times out on acc after 20 minutes or so (don't remember the exact time). I know it does cause I like to take the top off and crank the tunes while I'm cleaning the garage, or doing yardwork (Bronco is a very expensive, but cool boombox). So there is another potential failure point...customer has the vehicle all set up to flat tow, but never keys it off before leaving, and the motorhome has to wait at a light for more than 7 seconds...xfer case shifts out of neutral...customer drives cross country w/no knowledge he is grinding his tranny to slag the whole way! While this would "technically" be user error...it's WAY too easy to make that mistake...there NEEDS to be better failsafe than that!

Failsafe...that's exactly what needs to be added. There should be no circumstance the computer can take it out of neutral tow. That's why I'm headed back to Jeep - the manual shift transfer case can't go into gear without a person moving it. Dead battery - no problem. Jeep running - no problem. Jeep in ACC - no problem. Brakes on for twenty minutes - no problem.....see the trend? A manual transfer case is a thing of beauty for this use case.

I really like driving the Bronco, and it's way more comfortable. But I have had it for two and a half months, and it has been in the shop for a month. And Ford only covered 10 days of rental. And no one can tell me for sure why it self destructed, so I have zero confidence it won't happen again. Pretty happy I didn't go and buy all the accessories I wanted for it....or I'd be out another 4-5 grand.

 

[63GBPackerfan]

Failsafe...that's exactly what needs to be added. There should be no circumstance the computer can take it out of neutral tow. That's why I'm headed back to Jeep - the manual shift transfer case can't go into gear without a person moving it. Dead battery - no problem. Jeep running - no problem. Jeep in ACC - no problem. Brakes on for twenty minutes - no problem.....see the trend? A manual transfer case is a thing of beauty for this use case.

I really like driving the Bronco, and it's way more comfortable. But I have had it for two and a half months, and it has been in the shop for a month. And Ford only covered 10 days of rental. And no one can tell me for sure why it self destructed, so I have zero confidence it won't happen again. Pretty happy I didn't go and buy all the accessories I wanted for it....or I'd be out another 4-5 grand.

I have towed mine back from Oklahoma to California starting the Bronco to keep it charged when we stop for the night. I had zero issues with it. We towed it to Truckee for a stay and had zero issues. I now have a charge line wired in and we are going back to Truckee in a week. I’ll update again when we get back.

 

[da_jokker]

Just a thought, but we all know the Bronco likes to go back to it's "default" drive mode whenever it comes back alive.

So seems to me that if there was a low voltage situation OR Ford pushed out one of their many updates ... Basically anything that could cause the Bronco to wake up and attempt to go back into default driving mode.... Boom, there goes your transmission.

I don't see this getting resolved without a class action.

 

[Bmadda]

Failsafe...that's exactly what needs to be added. There should be no circumstance the computer can take it out of neutral tow. That's why I'm headed back to Jeep - the manual shift transfer case can't go into gear without a person moving it. Dead battery - no problem. Jeep running - no problem. Jeep in ACC - no problem. Brakes on for twenty minutes - no problem.....see the trend? A manual transfer case is a thing of beauty for this use case.

I really like driving the Bronco, and it's way more comfortable. But I have had it for two and a half months, and it has been in the shop for a month. And Ford only covered 10 days of rental. And no one can tell me for sure why it self destructed, so I have zero confidence it won't happen again. Pretty happy I didn't go and buy all the accessories I wanted for it....or I'd be out another 4-5 grand.

I totally agree, and I was disappointed (but not suprised) that they went w/an electric shift. I don't own a motorhome, and when I did it really only served as a home for critters, so for me this was never going to be an issue...however I specifically remember that Ford advertised the Bronco as flat towable, and I totally get that people who bought one for that feature have gotten shafted. This issue has gotta be fixed, and to do that somebody has gotta prove what the root cause is...otherwise they are just gonna continue to use "user error" as an excuse

 

[vrtical]

Mine times out on acc after 20 minutes or so (don't remember the exact time). I know it does cause I like to take the top off and crank the tunes while I'm cleaning the garage, or doing yardwork (Bronco is a very expensive, but cool boombox). So there is another potential failure point...customer has the vehicle all set up to flat tow, but never keys it off before leaving, and the motorhome has to wait at a light for more than 7 seconds...xfer case shifts out of neutral...customer drives cross country w/no knowledge he is grinding his tranny to slag the whole way! While this would "technically" be user error...it's WAY too easy to make that mistake...there NEEDS to be better failsafe than that!

there is a setting in the sync menus for the timeout setting not that it helps with the stupid electronically controlled transfer case.

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