Could rocking back and forth when stuck break your front differential.

[Quest]

I've gone through 2 FDs at this point, and I want to figure out if I am doing something I shouldn't when trying to get unstuck.

First time: Wooded trail, stopped halfway down and realized we shouldn't go any further and needed to back out. The trail was mucky, and a lot of water was being held by mosses and such. I first tired to back up and do a 3-point turn to make it easy getting up. Soon I was stuck as my tires had become mud slicks. I was in 4L at this point with rear locker on. 3 ties had contact it seemed, the front driver wheel had a rock behind it and I was not getting enough traction to pop over it. I tired the old drive/reverse rocking to see that helped. At that point the shifting becomes much heavier and loud. We throw recovery boards behind all the ties are try again. This was soon followed by a loud crack and a metal-on-metal sound like two gears not connecting might sound. I no longer had front traction. Eventually through the used kinetic rope the other vehicle got me up the hill. I was able to drive it to Ford, but it sounded terrible.

Second time: Picking up the repaired Bronco I decided to some easy Class iVs to get my confidence back. Everything was going fine, but then I ended up high-centered on a crappy earth/rock/wood berm someone built towards the end of the trail. Both rear ties off the ground front right ok, but not great traction. Front left had a little traction, but not enough to do much with. I'm in 4L with rear lockers t this point. I put a recovery board behind the front left and right tires. I start rocking back and forth trying to get something to get solid traction to drag me a foot and get the rear wheel on dirt. metal on metal rubbing gear sound again. After fruitlessly drying to dig out some and realizing all the rock and wood mixed into the berm would make it near impossible to dig out from. Fortunately, I have a heavy duty come along and pulled it out. Few minutes later I had it ahead enough to get traction and continue. Take it to Ford again (my local this time). They push to get it approved with Ford wanting to know why the one they just paid for broke in less than 200 miles driving. No one can give an answer and I know they are thinking I do crazy shit with it and that is why it keeps breaking, Dealership tells me when I pick it up to be careful with it as they are unlikely to approve a third. He noted that my undercarriage shows I am off-roading a lot with it. Yes, the armor has scratches, and the stupid frame cross bar is dinged up, but that has to be typical for an off-roading.

So, what am I doing wrong or not doing and should be? Trails are opening and I'd to do some in VT in a couple weeks. Now I am gun shy and afraid I might break something again. My wife had become comfortable off-roading with me until this last incident, but I can tell it makes her very anxious.

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[Baja Bronco]

Going to sound harsh, but it’s not meant to be. Anytime you break something, it’s always the driver’s fault or driving. No matter what anybody says.

First scenario - never back up uphill. You’re asking for trouble or breakage of something. Try at all costs to keep going forward.

Second scenario - probably do a better job with spoting obstacles on the trail. Always have a second or third option before going forward. Sometimes the rockiest line is the only option, but attack it slow.

You’re off roading, you’re going to break stuff eventually. I should know, I’ve got a ‘20 Raptor truck, with under 19K miles, 15K in Baja, yet I’m on my 3rd alternator, LOL, shit happens.

 

[swami37]

Poor driving skills if you have broken it twice.
sorry

 

[‘21OBX]

I’m going to assume that you do not have the advanced T-case(no 4a). If that’s the case you have the weakest axle ford puts in the bronco. It has the front axle disconnect. By far I’ve seen reports of that axle in the BD breaking more than any other bronco. Since you have the 4.46 gears you have the option to grab a locking front diff from ford or salvage yard. Get the better m210 fdu without having to mess with the rear . It is pricey and you have to buy new from cv axles too. Plus the procal to program it. But from the sounds of it you need the better setup. It will be $4k ish if you do the labor.

 

[raqball]

Going to sound harsh, but it’s not meant to be. Anytime you break something, it’s always the driver’s fault or driving. No matter what anybody says.

Absolutely false!

 

[Quest]

I’m going to assume that you do not have the advanced T-case(no 4a). If that’s the case you have the weakest axle ford puts in the bronco. It has the front axle disconnect. By far I’ve seen reports of that axle in the BD breaking more than any other bronco. Since you have the 4.46 gears you have the option to grab a locking front diff from ford or salvage yard. Get the better m210 fdu without having to mess with the rear . It is pricey and you have to buy new from cv axles too. Plus the procal to program it. But from the sounds of it you need the better setup. It will be $4k ish if you do the labor.

Correct, no 4A. I was not aware of the BD axle situation, I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Quest]

Going to sound harsh, but it’s not meant to be. Anytime you break something, it’s always the driver’s fault or driving. No matter what anybody says.

First scenario - never back up uphill. You’re asking for trouble or breakage of something. Try at all costs to keep going forward.

Second scenario - probably do a better job with spoting obstacles on the trail. Always have a second or third option before going forward. Sometimes the rockiest line is the only option, but attack it slow.

You’re off roading, you’re going to break stuff eventually. I should know, I’ve got a ‘20 Raptor truck, with under 19K miles, 15K in Baja, yet I’m on my 3rd alternator, LOL, shit happens.

Be as "harsh" as you want, I need to figure this out and I lack years of experience many others have.

In both cases it was my fault I got stuck, not arguing that fact. I should have scouted the downhill before attempting it, especially with it being a trail not recently used. While I could see the paved road, I should have accepted that the berm was too big a risk, turned around, and backtracked the 3 miles. Particularly so with the berm as I was solo on the trail. I also should have broken out the come-along and freed myself instead of trying to solve it with the wheels.

Inevitably I will likely get stuck in the future someplace somehow, and I was hoping for some advice on handling similar situations.

 

[Baja Bronco]

Be as "harsh" as you want, I need to figure this out and I lack years of experience many others have.

In both cases it was my fault I got stuck, not arguing that fact. I should have scouted the downhill before attempting it, especially with it being a trail not recently used. While I could see the paved road, I should have accepted that the berm was too big a risk, turned around, and backtracked the 3 miles. Particularly so with the berm as I was solo on the trail. I also should have broken out the come-along and freed myself instead of trying to solve it with the wheels.

Inevitably I will likely get stuck in the future someplace somehow, and I was hoping for some advice on handling similar situations.

Experience comes from making mistakes, and learning through them! Going back to the downhill, once again, never back up an uphill. Bad things happen, as you found out.

Next time you’re at the bottom of a downhill, with no chance of going forward, make a “37” point turn, LOL. I used the quotations because I’m not sure how many turns it will take until you’re facing now an uphill. Drive up and out, figure out a better route.

 

[PWillette]

I've gone through 2 FDs at this point, and I want to figure out if I am doing something I shouldn't when trying to get unstuck.

First time: Wooded trail, stopped halfway down and realized we shouldn't go any further and needed to back out. The trail was mucky, and a lot of water was being held by mosses and such. I first tired to back up and do a 3-point turn to make it easy getting up. Soon I was stuck as my tires had become mud slicks. I was in 4L at this point with rear locker on. 3 ties had contact it seemed, the front driver wheel had a rock behind it and I was not getting enough traction to pop over it. I tired the old drive/reverse rocking to see that helped. At that point the shifting becomes much heavier and loud. We throw recovery boards behind all the ties are try again. This was soon followed by a loud crack and a metal-on-metal sound like two gears not connecting might sound. I no longer had front traction. Eventually through the used kinetic rope the other vehicle got me up the hill. I was able to drive it to Ford, but it sounded terrible.

Second time: Picking up the repaired Bronco I decided to some easy Class iVs to get my confidence back. Everything was going fine, but then I ended up high-centered on a crappy earth/rock/wood berm someone built towards the end of the trail. Both rear ties off the ground front right ok, but not great traction. Front left had a little traction, but not enough to do much with. I'm in 4L with rear lockers t this point. I put a recovery board behind the front left and right tires. I start rocking back and forth trying to get something to get solid traction to drag me a foot and get the rear wheel on dirt. metal on metal rubbing gear sound again. After fruitlessly drying to dig out some and realizing all the rock and wood mixed into the berm would make it near impossible to dig out from. Fortunately, I have a heavy duty come along and pulled it out. Few minutes later I had it ahead enough to get traction and continue. Take it to Ford again (my local this time). They push to get it approved with Ford wanting to know why the one they just paid for broke in less than 200 miles driving. No one can give an answer and I know they are thinking I do crazy shit with it and that is why it keeps breaking, Dealership tells me when I pick it up to be careful with it as they are unlikely to approve a third. He noted that my undercarriage shows I am off-roading a lot with it. Yes, the armor has scratches, and the stupid frame cross bar is dinged up, but that has to be typical for an off-roading.

So, what am I doing wrong or not doing and should be? Trails are opening and I'd to do some in VT in a couple weeks. Now I am gun shy and afraid I might break something again. My wife had become comfortable off-roading with me until this last incident, but I can tell it makes her very anxious.

Rocking back n forth has it's place so long as it is performed gently...slamming between forward and reverse while spinning tires and turning the front wheels too & fro is asking for trouble IMO.

 

[lamokadave]

Experience comes from making mistakes, and learning through them! Going back to the downhill, once again, never back up an uphill. Bad things happen, as you found out.

Next time you’re at the bottom of a downhill, with no chance of going forward, make a “37” point turn, LOL. I used the quotations because I’m not sure how many turns it will take until you’re facing now an uphill. Drive up and out, figure out a better route.

A possible learning moment here.
What is the problem with trying to back up a hill? Why would any of the mechanical parts be less robust based on rotation they are turning?

 

[Baja Bronco]

A possible learning moment here.
What is the problem with trying to back up a hill? Why would any of the mechanical parts be less robust based on rotation they are turning?

Depends on the hill. If we’re talking 10 feet, yeah it should be alright. If you’re talking 40 - 50 feet, no. I don’t know exactly why, but I suspect the load to pull is a lot greater than the load to push. I’ve seen drive shafts snap, diffs explode, and teeth break off in the diffs. I won’t do it. Not worth it, IMO. You might have better results.

 

[raptorusmaximus]

I know ford puts weak (cheap ) axles in the bronco. I've done off roading all over the country in a host of vehicles and NEVER broke a diff. I've bent a few axles but all the problems with tie rods etc I'm not sure I would push a bronco too hard......compared to my 72 scout, 78 FJ40, 12 raptor and even my 92 bronco they seem to have less robust drive trains.

 

[Reidt131]

Depends on the hill. If we’re talking 10 feet, yeah it should be alright. If you’re talking 40 - 50 feet, no. I don’t know exactly why, but I suspect the load to pull is a lot greater than the load to push. I’ve seen drive shafts snap, diffs explode, and teeth break off in the diffs. I won’t do it. Not worth it, IMO. You might have better results.

This is an interesting conversation. I had always worked under the assumption that Reverse would be as robust as a slow forward gear. Granted the low gearing of Reverse would result in higher torque loads, which could explain damage.

 

[Baja Bronco]

This is an interesting conversation. I had always worked under the assumption that Reverse would be as robust as a slow forward gear. Granted the low gearing of Reverse would result in higher torque loads, which could explain damage.

Oh, I’m not saying I’m right, just what I’ve seen.

 

[Oldhippie]

Backing up puts ya on the “coast” side of the diff gears and weight/torque on the weaker front axle…flailing away with wheels off the ground is always a good route to destruction…along with hidden wet logs…

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