Sponsored

Transfer Case Technical Discussion

BigMeatsBronco

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Allan
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
3,380
Reaction score
10,484
Location
97301
Vehicle(s)
2021 FE 2 door
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
Clubs
 
I have an Everest T-Case in route for my 5.2 V8 swap, it does appear to have internals very similar the the f150 Raptor. slightly different design than broncos.

once it arrives I'll tear down the BRONCO advanced case to see what's inside and then we'll know for sure if the mechanical connection exists.

Back in 1999 I had a Isuzu Vehicross, and it had an early version of TOD with ball ramp clutches for front axle engagement. The unit worked completely awesome for over 300,000 miles and I was able to utilize the Troopers transfer case controller module which allowed for True lockup, the original vehicross design did not have four wheel drive high LOCK per se, I was able to utilize this feature by creating a wire that applied 12 volts to the solenoid which forced the ball ramps into a position where any torque applied from the engine would instantly lock the front drive line. If you look closely at the ball ramp design it is almost impossible for the clutches to ever slip under load... the reason is because the farther the load and torque that you apply the farther down the ball ramps the balls travel and they force the clutches together with tremendous Force. My point here is is that even if there is no spline mechanical connection, the ball ramp design is strong enough to withstand extreme forces that maybe generated between the front and rear drive axles additionally because it does not have a spline connection it allows for a degree of slip, meaning that it is possible for the clutches to slip if there is no torque applied from the engine (kind of like a ratchet)... ball ramp clutches are far superior and stronger than sprag clutches that are used inside of automatic transmissions and other applications.

I still think the Broncos all-wheel drive case design uses the motor to push the splines past the clutches inner splines to a solid spline where it is actually mechanically locked.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

5GENIDN

Heritage
Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Jul 1, 2023
Threads
12
Messages
3,542
Reaction score
10,264
Location
Idaho
Vehicle(s)
23 Ford Bronco Heritage Limited 2dr
Your Bronco Model
Heritage
Clubs
 
here's where the lock up occurs....on the splines themselves

Screenshot_20250316_092831_Chrome~3.webp
For me I find this exceptionally good news. It gives me renewed confidence in the TC.... (mechanically) it is the damn electronics that still confounds me. I understand the benefits they bring to the table (which are considerable) but they are still a weak link... as in what typically fails.

For @SierraBronco I think this may throw the theory of the clutch plates slipping out the window...
Something is causing all those codes to be thrown....

EDIT: the story continues....
 
Last edited:

SierraBronco

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2024
Threads
40
Messages
5,108
Reaction score
13,743
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Wildtrak, 2024 Wildtrak, 2024 Wildtrak
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
here's where the lock up occurs....on the splines themselves

Screenshot_20250316_092831_Chrome~3.jpg
is that piece not fixed in place constantly sending power to the rear? Man I apologize for being a bit of a tard. Maybe I should orient my picture up and down when I’m looking at it. Either way perhaps I’m being influenced by motorcycle wet clutch engagement but the way I’m understanding the system to work-7G361 is the ball ramp, spun by the silver doohickey powered by the actuator. Ball ramp pushes into the clutch pack, from left to right to engage the clutches. The splines are attached to the clutch pack and are always spinning when driving regardless of drive mode. With no pressure from ball ramp to engage the clutches, no power is sent to the front tires, but everything is still spinning. Ball ramp engages to send varying amounts of power to the front based on wheel speed sensors. If an overload is detected, your spinning of the rears with no front driveline, for example, the system thinks the clutch is being overloaded and fully “locks” the system by fully engaging the clutch like it would for 4H or 4L.

I’m just going to get another tcase and tear the thing apart so I can see with better “pictures.”
🤣
 
OP
OP
orion

orion

Black Diamond
Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeremy
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Threads
17
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
3,194
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
17' F-250, 17' Explorer
Your Bronco Model
Black Diamond
Clubs
 
is that piece not fixed in place constantly sending power to the rear? Man I apologize for being a bit of a tard. Maybe I should orient my picture up and down when I’m looking at it. Either way perhaps I’m being influenced by motorcycle wet clutch engagement but the way I’m understanding the system to work-7G361 is the ball ramp, spun by the silver doohickey powered by the actuator. Ball ramp pushes into the clutch pack, from left to right to engage the clutches. The splines are attached to the clutch pack and are always spinning when driving regardless of drive mode. With no pressure from ball ramp to engage the clutches, no power is sent to the front tires, but everything is still spinning. Ball ramp engages to send varying amounts of power to the front based on wheel speed sensors. If an overload is detected, your spinning of the rears with no front driveline, for example, the system thinks the clutch is being overloaded and fully “locks” the system by fully engaging the clutch like it would for 4H or 4L.

I’m just going to get another tcase and tear the thing apart so I can see with better “pictures.”
🤣
While in there, see what it would take to change the lo gear ratio. I wish I was a machinist.
 

5GENIDN

Heritage
Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Jul 1, 2023
Threads
12
Messages
3,542
Reaction score
10,264
Location
Idaho
Vehicle(s)
23 Ford Bronco Heritage Limited 2dr
Your Bronco Model
Heritage
Clubs
 
is that piece not fixed in place constantly sending power to the rear? Man I apologize for being a bit of a tard. Maybe I should orient my picture up and down when I’m looking at it. Either way perhaps I’m being influenced by motorcycle wet clutch engagement but the way I’m understanding the system to work-7G361 is the ball ramp, spun by the silver doohickey powered by the actuator. Ball ramp pushes into the clutch pack, from left to right to engage the clutches. The splines are attached to the clutch pack and are always spinning when driving regardless of drive mode. With no pressure from ball ramp to engage the clutches, no power is sent to the front tires, but everything is still spinning. Ball ramp engages to send varying amounts of power to the front based on wheel speed sensors. If an overload is detected, your spinning of the rears with no front driveline, for example, the system thinks the clutch is being overloaded and fully “locks” the system by fully engaging the clutch like it would for 4H or 4L.

I’m just going to get another tcase and tear the thing apart so I can see with better “pictures.”
🤣
You are going all out to chase this. Kudos!
Maybe I am missing the point of each of you.... I thought what Bigmeats is saying is that when in 4A the Tcase is adjusting pressure on the clutch plates but when going to 4H or 4L the Tcase is sliding even further to engage the teeth on the power shaft essentially bypassing the clutch plates.... Maybe (probably) I am missing something. I am Like you sierra, I really need one in hand to envision this.
 

Sponsored

Snacktime

Black Diamond
Well-Known Member
First Name
Nate
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Threads
71
Messages
3,866
Reaction score
9,687
Location
Sac-a-tomatoes
Vehicle(s)
Bronco, F150
Your Bronco Model
Black Diamond
Clubs
 
here's where the lock up occurs....on the splines themselves

Screenshot_20250316_092831_Chrome~3.jpg
Those splines engage the clutch pack. The out sprocket to the front wheels is keyed into the the clutch pack shield.
 

SierraBronco

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2024
Threads
40
Messages
5,108
Reaction score
13,743
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Wildtrak, 2024 Wildtrak, 2024 Wildtrak
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
While in there, see what it would take to change the lo gear ratio. I wish I was a machinist.
I’m not certain on the Bronco Tcase specifically, but it sounds like the problem will be space constraints of the housing limiting the size of the gears you can use.
 

5GENIDN

Heritage
Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Jul 1, 2023
Threads
12
Messages
3,542
Reaction score
10,264
Location
Idaho
Vehicle(s)
23 Ford Bronco Heritage Limited 2dr
Your Bronco Model
Heritage
Clubs
 
Those splines engage the clutch pack. The out sprocket to the front wheels is keyed into the the clutch pack shield.
So you are saying that you would have to have a lock between the clutch pack shield and those splines on the power shaft. I thought Bigmeats was suggesting that the clutch pack shield was somehow engaging directly with those teeth when in 4H or 4L.... I am a little lost as to it would do that beyond the 4A engagement. But I have not cracked one open.... There in lies my ineptitude.
 

Snacktime

Black Diamond
Well-Known Member
First Name
Nate
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Threads
71
Messages
3,866
Reaction score
9,687
Location
Sac-a-tomatoes
Vehicle(s)
Bronco, F150
Your Bronco Model
Black Diamond
Clubs
 
The 4Auto was the new design and got a lower gearing to compete with jeep. The part time unit is just the same old unit for used in the ranger set up for 10r60. Just look at the limiter use of the 4Auto case in the new ranger, it's only in the raptor?
 

BigMeatsBronco

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Allan
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
3,380
Reaction score
10,484
Location
97301
Vehicle(s)
2021 FE 2 door
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
Clubs
 
You are going all out to chase this. Kudos!
Maybe I am missing the point of each of you.... I thought what Bigmeats is saying is that when in 4A the Tcase is adjusting pressure on the clutch plates but when going to 4H or 4L the Tcase is sliding even further to engage the teeth on the power shaft essentially bypassing the clutch plates.... Maybe (probably) I am missing something. I am Like you sierra, I really need one in hand to envision this.
That's how I believe it works after watching the video 12 times and pausing it and zooming in and taking screenshots there's a spring that is operated last and at the last portion of the motors movement it appears to slide the inner splined ring far enough to engage with the drums inner splines ( the same splines the gear connects to) kind of like a synchronizer does in a transmission... the amount of Engagement is likely only an eighth of an inch wide but because of the diameter that is all that is needed
 

Sponsored

5GENIDN

Heritage
Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Jul 1, 2023
Threads
12
Messages
3,542
Reaction score
10,264
Location
Idaho
Vehicle(s)
23 Ford Bronco Heritage Limited 2dr
Your Bronco Model
Heritage
Clubs
 
The 4Auto was the new design and got a lower gearing to compete with jeep. The part time unit is just the same old unit for used in the ranger set up for 10r60. Just look at the limiter use of the 4Auto case in the new ranger, it's only in the raptor?
I believe the low is a 2.6:1 isn't it?
 

BigMeatsBronco

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Allan
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
3,380
Reaction score
10,484
Location
97301
Vehicle(s)
2021 FE 2 door
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
Clubs
 
Those splines engage the clutch pack. The out sprocket to the front wheels is keyed into the the clutch pack shield.
I think the collar sleeve slides past at the last portion of the movement and engages the same splines the gear does on the clutch pack shield
 

SierraBronco

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2024
Threads
40
Messages
5,108
Reaction score
13,743
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2022 Wildtrak, 2024 Wildtrak, 2024 Wildtrak
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
That's how I believe it works after watching the video 12 times and pausing it and zooming in and taking screenshots there's a spring that is operated last and at the last portion of the motors movement it appears to slide the inner splined ring far enough to engage with the drums inner splines ( the same splines the gear connects to) kind of like a synchronizer does in a transmission the amount of Engagement is likely only an eighth of an inch wide but because of the diameter that is all that is needed
Whereas I’m doing the same thing (watching over and over) but to me the shaft is fixed, the clutch drum/housing is fixed by the gear that is always engaged to the housing which is fixed by the bearing and snap ring. When the ball ramp engages it doesn’t move the whole clutch assembly like the video shows, it just engages the clutches. if he put the gear back on and the snap ring he wouldn’t be able to show the movement of the ball ramp mechanism by hand as it would likely have too much force to overcome.
 

BigMeatsBronco

First Edition
Well-Known Member
First Name
Allan
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Threads
52
Messages
3,380
Reaction score
10,484
Location
97301
Vehicle(s)
2021 FE 2 door
Your Bronco Model
First Edition
Clubs
 
Whereas I’m doing the same thing (watching over and over) but to me the shaft is fixed, the clutch drum/housing is fixed by the gear that is always engaged to the housing which is fixed by the bearing and snap ring. When the ball ramp engages it doesn’t move the whole clutch assembly like the video shows, it just engages the clutches. if he put the gear back on and the snap ring he wouldn’t be able to show the movement of the ball ramp mechanism by hand as it would likely have too much force to overcome.
The inner sleeve also moves as well otherwise it wouldn't have a spring attached to the four prong washer behind it
I think it works like this, for the first portion of the movement the squish is on the clutch plates themselves then once it gets to a certain point it begins to slide the inner splined sleeve the last portion of the movement which causes the engagement of the splines at the same place the gear has the splines, which is on the outside edge of the clutch pack shield
Sponsored

 
 





Top