How can water enter the engine?

[Silver-Bolt]

Interesting take on the flushes. I imagine no car brand would ever officially except an aftermarket product being used in their engines, just as they won't accept anyone else's oil or filter. I've seen cases where on an old car a flush loosens some sludge that then gets into a key passage on a transmission and actually hurts performance but I'm not so sure on this new of an engine. I'm 'assuming' that along with the water came in some fine particles of grit or sand and that's what ultimately broke down the engine. I'll recommend testing all that you mentioned, Heck I'd even pay for it if they wouldn't just to get this figured out.

How foamy does emulsified oil get? I mentioned that it was all the way up in the dipstick cap. I think a heck of a lot of water got in...

thank you.

You can use any brand of oil and filter as long as they meet Ford's specs. A flush on a modern engine is a bad idea. The tolerances and materials are very different than in years past. As Flip mentioned, no idea what chemical was used. Was the engine run with the chemicals? If would be very easy to wipe away the lubrication from today's very low viscosity oils. You are kind of screwed at this point since you have used a non approved chemical in the oil system.

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[broncabilly]

You can use any brand of oil and filter as long as they meet Ford's specs. A flush on a modern engine is a bad idea. The tolerances and materials are very different than in years past. As Flip mentioned, no idea what chemical was used. Was the engine run with the chemicals? If would be very easy to wipe away the lubrication from today's very low viscosity oils. You are kind of screwed at this point since you have used a non approved chemical in the oil system.

Hope you’re wrong about the being screwed part but nothing I can do now. So what would you suggest one do if they find themselves with a crankcase full of milk shake? Just drain it and replace with oil? Because you sure aren’t going to get it all out.

 

[da_jokker]

All... Seems like we're getting off topic.

Yes, the "flush" May or may not have been the action that finally caused the engine to seize... But that is moot.

There is still the question of how the water got into the engine in the first place. It obviously did not go through the intake. And by intake I mean the entire system including the intercooler. The engine ran with water in the oil so there was no water in the top end.

Seems to me that the OP needs to fight the battle that water leaked into the engine due to a manufacturer defect (aka something that wasn't sealed) and fight with that card.

Had they not done a flush, and just simply change the oil a few times, the engine still could have ended up seizing from lack of lubrication.

Sounds like the pcv plate is the only potential point of entry right now? Hard to believe that there was no existing oil leak before.

Oh, and someone did mention about a possible crack and maybe it was antifreeze and not water.

I wonder if the OP had not done any oil changes and taken the Bronco to the dealer for unexplained water ingress... Would they be singing a different tune.

(This is one of the reasons why I've taken the Ford ESP off the table.... It's worthless when Ford dealers seems to fight tooth and nail for every warranty claim)

 

[Silver-Bolt]

Hope you’re wrong about the being screwed part but nothing I can do now. So what would you suggest one do if they find themselves with a crankcase full of milk shake? Just drain it and replace with oil? Because you sure aren’t going to get it all out.

My $.02, if you can prove that the water was below the factory recommended depth you might have a case. As far as flushing the water, I would have used nothing but the factory recommended oil. I would have done back to back oil changes until there was no sign of any water.

If you feel there is a defect from the factory, I would fight it. Be prepared for a long and expensive battle. It could be something as simple as the engine vacuum pulled in water through the dipstick. Proving that will be the challenge.

 

[Donkeygyrl]

Anywhere water could have come in would have been a possible vacuum or oil leak prior to this no?

 

[OX1]

Why people from jersey shouldn't be allowed out of jersey

Whatta ya mean, that's the only place we can "legally", "wheel"..............

 

[broncabilly]

Had a chance to visit the ol’ boy today. So I took a quick pic of the air tube behind the filter.

pretty dang clean.

 

[Dan-O]

Just from the picture you posted…… water most likely entered thru intake. The dried muddy water puddles in intake housing is obvious sign of water intrusion. Most likely when entering the puddle the water wave surged into intake. “Caked with mud” is an exaggeration by dealer. If water didn’t enter intake how else would dried water be in there?

 

[mcinfantry]

So would an air filter, filter dirt out of the water? And the ‘ajar’ filter in the earlier pictures looks new to me. And I can tell you the few times I’ve flooded engines I changed the oil and air filter…

but idk. Thats first hand experience flooding engines

I’ve never had a mechanic I take things to. But I wonder if they would as well?

I’ll ask some I know

 

[broncabilly]

Just from the picture you posted…… water most likely entered thru intake. The dried muddy water puddles in intake housing is obvious sign of water intrusion. Most likely when entering the puddle the water wave surged into intake. “Caked with mud” is an exaggeration by dealer. If water didn’t enter intake how else would dried water be in there?

all I can do is promise you there was no bow wave, the water was 10” below the intake. And for the incredibly small amount of splashes that got in the air box, isn’t there a trap door at the bottom of the box? Anyway, I got to visit the poor boy today and I took off the air filter and snapped this pic

Pretty darned clean.
But again the real question is how would it be possible for water to enter the air intake and end up in the crankcase all while continuing to run relatively smoothly?

 

[Dan-O]

all I can do is promise you there was no bow wave, the water was 10” below the intake. And for the incredibly small amount of splashes that got in the air box, isn’t there a trap door at the bottom of the box? Anyway, I got to visit the poor boy today and I took off the air filter and snapped this pic

Pretty darned clean.
But again the real question is how would it be possible for water to enter the air intake and end up in the crankcase all while continuing to run relatively smoothly?

I agree that part is very clean……? Ya I c your point now. And I do agree it was nothing what I would ever say to be muddy yet alone caked on? That’s not good for dealer to compare what ur first photo looked like with anything like caked on mud. But you know I thought I remembered reading on here few months ago of same type problem. Similar scenario if I recall the front end was well above what should have been considered fording depth. It may be on here somewhere I just can’t find it. I’ll keep looking and let u know. Bummer bad luck.

 

[broncabilly]

They were probably my photos. And while I was laughably stuck, it wasn’t submerged. Right behind the front tires the truck was sitting on the frame, so the tires were sagging or dropping down making it look a lot deeper in than it was.
I might post them again after all this is through but as I said earlier it was just becoming a distraction to the question of how water entered my crankcase.

 

[OCNORB1974]

Besides the air intake, how can water enter the engine? I got stuck in water, level was a little above the bumper, below the headlights. (approximately 8 or 9" below air intake). Back wheels were never in the water. But there WAS water in the engine. The dealership said that the air filter was "caked with mud" and then sent me this picture:

Splattered a little from radiator fan with dirty water? Sure. Caked with mud? Hardly. I did check the filter and filter box when this happened and the filter was completely dry.

I contend that water entered the crankcase somewhere. Faulty PCV valve seal? Not sure, that's why I'm asking here. I posted a couple weeks ago and mostly got replies telling me how stupid I am. And that's fine it just doesn't help me much. I'm just asking for opinions on entry points for water and mud. Because now I have a seized engine and Ford says it came in the intake and won't cover it. But it didn't and I'm going to be out $10,000. So please help if you can.
Thanks

So you think the answers you get from people on this forum will cause Ford to go, “well darn, didn’t know that!”, sure we’ll replace it based on t what the forum members said. Wow, just wow.

 

[omi205]

The photos from the intake, it dosnt seem like much dirt but you have to remember water dries up and leaves little behind. There wasn't much dirt in the water. Whatever dirt was in the water is what you see dried up along the intake. What I am trying to say is that the argument of the intake being "clean" or having little dirt residue as a indicator that very little water entered is not a strong argument. For example, if the water was entirely clean, say pool water, you would see no dirt at all but could still have a water blocked engine.

When I had my wrangler JL I would mud run it up in big bear. It would get covered in light streams of dirt just like what you see in your intake. The entire inside of the engine bay was also covered in it. Everything. But I never once ran it in water that went above the tire center caps. Ever. One of those mud fun days, water splashed up into engine bay and caused the engine light to come on. It was literally because water splashed into the intake for a second. My intake looked JUST LIKE YOURS (light streams of dirt). and it caused the engine light to come on. Now granted, the next day the engine light went away. I guess water didn't get all the way into the engine? IDK. My point being that water splashing into the intake from puddles no deeper then my 33" KO2 center caps and caused the engine light to come on.

What I am thinking happened in your case was that you had the bow of the bronco in water submerged for several minutes, at the least. Although the intake was not underwater. The fan is spinning, under water. Belts are spinning, under water. Water is constantly being churning up and sucked into the intake. Had you forged through that same water depth, nothing would have happened. But I think because you sat in it for prolonged time. Water was constantly being splashed into the intake.

This is a tough one. You're going to have to figure out where the water could have entered besides the intake. That is your best argument.

 

[da_jokker]

The photos from the intake, it dosnt seem like much dirt but you have to remember water dries up and leaves little behind. There wasn't much dirt in the water. Whatever dirt was in the water is what you see dried up along the intake. What I am trying to say is that the argument of the intake being "clean" or having little dirt residue as a indicator that very little water entered is not a strong argument. For example, if the water was entirely clean, say pool water, you would see no dirt at all but could still have a water blocked engine.

When I had my wrangler JL I would mud run it up in big bear. It would get covered in light streams of dirt just like what you see in your intake. The entire inside of the engine bay was also covered in it. Everything. But I never once ran it in water that went above the tire center caps. Ever. One of those mud fun days, water splashed up into engine bay and caused the engine light to come on. It was literally because water splashed into the intake for a second. My intake looked JUST LIKE YOURS (light streams of dirt). and it caused the engine light to come on. Now granted, the next day the engine light went away. I guess water didn't get all the way into the engine? IDK. My point being that water splashing into the intake from puddles no deeper then my 33" KO2 center caps and caused the engine light to come on.

What I am thinking happened in your case was that you had the bow of the bronco in water submerged for several minutes, at the least. Although the intake was not underwater. The fan is spinning, under water. Belts are spinning, under water. Water is constantly being churning up and sucked into the intake. Had you forged through that same water depth, nothing would have happened. But I think because you sat in it for prolonged time. Water was constantly being splashed into the intake.

This is a tough one. You're going to have to figure out where the water could have entered besides the intake. That is your best argument.

So your engine ran perfect that entire time all while your oil was milk due to the stream you got in the intake?

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