4A issues. ford says this is normal?

[Ducati1098]

Only point I am making is that I have yet to see FORD DOCUMENTATION that clearly states you can run 4A on pavement all the time.

Once again, there has already been FORD DOCUMENTATION stating it is appropriate for all road conditions posted multiple times on this forum.

See the very first paragraph on post 34. This is posted in the factory workshop manual and also all other training material because it’s exactly what Ford teaches its technicians.

All road conditions means you can use it 100% of the time whether it’s dry pavement, wet pavement, gravel, etc.

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[tourproto]

Once again, there has already been FORD DOCUMENTATION stating it is appropriate for all road conditions posted multiple times on this forum.

See the very first paragraph on post 34. This is posted in the factory workshop manual and also all other training material because it’s exactly what Ford teaches its technicians.

All road conditions means you can use it 100% of the time whether it’s dry pavement, wet pavement, gravel, etc.

don’t get me wrong, I am on your side on this. But post number 34 does not reference the Ford documentation it came from.

I am curious what owners manual or other official Ford document that text came from

Regardless,I will be using 4A all the time when I am driving.

 

[Ducati1098]

But post number 34 does not reference the Ford documentation it came from.

I am curious what owners manual or other official Ford document that text came from

It’s copied directly out of the factory workshop manual.

 

[JaredH790]

FWIW ... bought my Badlands new and yes I can tell a difference in how it steers in 4A vs 2H but not by much. I would not use 4A unless you are on wet, snowy, or icy conditions. 4A uses a clutch to engage when needed but I suspect there is a little drag in it even when disengaged when 4A is on ... good luck!

 

[thegoatman]

On the f150 forums there are plenty of ppl that use 4a 100% of the time over the course of years. They are retro fitting the ford performance torsen in the front diffs and using 4a for additional stability on road.

3.5 f150 has more power and no weight in the back. The Elocker and no lsd in the back is useless on the street and makes 4a useful even in dry conditions.

To think you can’t use 4a 100% of the time is crazy. To even argue this there would be shut down instantly

 

[Qarlos]

How am I supposed to get a good start drag racing without 4A?

Clearly a defect if it can't be used on dry pavement.

 

[Malicar]

Hey everyone. Picked up a 22 Badlands fully loaded wirh 47K miles a few weeks ago. Haven't really used 4WD other than sport mode and Baja in the sand trails in my local Forrest. Used 4A slippery mode the other day and noticed when pulling into a parking spot at super slow speed the front wheels were chattering and the wheel had some resistance. I immediately knew something was wrong. Isn't the truck supposed to be in 2H until it detects traction issues or sharp turns in 4A? I know I read a few people had the same problems here and it ended up either being the TCM or the transfer case.

Called the dealership I got the vehilce from and the guy in the service department said that is normal, which I know is not the case.

Am I wrong or is the service guy ignorant?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The 4A is not electronic, there is a clutch pack in the front diff I think, not sure though.
The transfer case is always engaged in 4A or 4Hi. 4Hi just locks the clutch pack together.
So the grabbing in the parking lot is just a fresh grabby clutch slipping.
I could also be completely wrong. I can't remember how I got this info.

 

[thegoatman]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The 4A is not electronic, there is a clutch pack in the front diff I think, not sure though.
The transfer case is always engaged in 4A or 4Hi. 4Hi just locks the clutch pack together.
So the grabbing in the parking lot is just a fresh grabby clutch slipping.
I could also be completely wrong. I can't remember how I got this info.

Electronically controlled wet clutch.

My only question is if it’s the torque on demand unit from regular f150 where it just loads the clutch to 100% in 4hi. or does it have the hi lock extra mechanical lock to actually fully lock like the f150 raptor in 4hi

 

[Ducati1098]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The 4A is not electronic, there is a clutch pack in the front diff I think, not sure though.
The transfer case is always engaged in 4A or 4Hi. 4Hi just locks the clutch pack together.
So the grabbing in the parking lot is just a fresh grabby clutch slipping.
I could also be completely wrong. I can't remember how I got this info.

The clutch is controlled electronically and It’s all done inside the transfer case.

Transfer Case
OPERATING PRINCIPLE

The transfer case delivers engine torque to the rear wheels and to the front wheels, when requested. The transfer case is mounted on the rear of the transmission assembly. The transfer case has an integrated low range gear reduction using the planetary gear set.

The transfer case has five different operating modes;

• Two Wheel Drive
• Four Wheel Drive - High Range
• Four Wheel Drive - Low Range
• Four Wheel Drive Auto
• Neutral (for recreational towing)

The transfer case is commanded via the mode select switch and the AWD module. The transfer case is electronically shifted via a shift motor mounted on the front of the transfer case housing. The transfer case is filled with lubricating oil which is circulated using a mechanical oil pump. The oil pump is fitted with a strainer to filter any debris.

The Advanced 4x4 with 4A Mode Transfer case is the center of the AWD system. It is a gearbox that attaches to the output of the transmission through a splined input at the transfer case. Torque from the transmission is transferred to the front and rear driveshaft depending on AWD mode.

The transfer case is equipped with an electronically controlled high torque capacity clutch which is located inside the case. This clutch is used to synchronize the speed of the front driveline with the rear driveline during 2WD to 4WD high (4H) or 4WD AUTO (4A) shifts. The clutch also provides torque to the front driveline in all 4WD modes. The transfer case is lubricated by a positive displacement fluid pump that channels fluid flow through holes in the rear output shaft.

Two Wheel Drive Operation

In this mode all torque from the transmission is passed through the transfer case to the rear driveshaft which passes through the rear axle and to the wheels.

Four Wheel Drive Auto

In this mode the transfer case system is active all the time and requires no input from the driver. The AWD control system continuously monitors vehicle conditions and automatically applies torque to the front driveshaft. This is done through the use of a multi plate clutch pack inside the transfer case that modulates torque delivery to a chain drive that is connected to the front driveshaft. If any wheel slip is detected on the vehicle or if the vehicle is in a handling event the AWD control system commands the transfer case actuator to apply torque to a ball ramp cam system which then applies an axial force into the clutch pack.

Four Wheel Drive High Range

In this mode the clutch is essentially locked. This would lock the front and rear driveshafts together giving the vehicle maximum traction. It is a similar mode to the ESOF system 4WD high (4H) mode

My only question is if it’s the torque on demand unit from regular f150 where it just loads the clutch to 100% in 4hi. or does it have the hi lock extra dogbone action to actually fully lock like the f150 raptor in 4hi

It just locks the clutch.

 

[thegoatman]

It just locks the clutch.

interesting…

 

[RHeinz]

Ford programmed it to come on in Sport mode.

You're wrong.

I do not believe the 22 Badlands has “Sport Mode” from the factory. Mine (with the 4A transfer case) doesn’t. So, someone has jacked with it…. Hopefully the code changes that were made are correct….

In my opinion: 4A provides zero advantage over 2H in normal driving conditions and also contributes to internal transfer case clutch pack wear. I would only use it on high speed dirt road driving, heavy rains or intermittent icy conditions.

MY OPINION.

 

[mpeugeot]

I do not believe the 22 Badlands has “Sport Mode” from the factory. Mine (with the 4A transfer case) doesn’t. So, someone has jacked with it…. Hopefully the code changes that were made are correct….

In my opinion: 4A provides zero advantage over 2H in normal driving conditions and also contributes to internal transfer case clutch pack wear. I would only use it on high speed dirt road driving, heavy rains or intermittent icy conditions.

MY OPINION.

It’s hard to fuck up adding sport mode, it's a single variable to turn on or off.

 

[bloominguez]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The 4A is not electronic, there is a clutch pack in the front diff I think, not sure though.
The transfer case is always engaged in 4A or 4Hi. 4Hi just locks the clutch pack together.
So the grabbing in the parking lot is just a fresh grabby clutch slipping.
I could also be completely wrong. I can't remember how I got this info.

I'm genuinely curious what you thought "electronic" meant in this context. "Electronic" here is used no differently than it is for an electronic automatic transmission (ubiquitous nowadays, to the point where it's not even mentioned, it's just assumed) or an electronic LSD (on an increasing number of performance cars). Just a layer of control (logic and actuators) over a mechanical system. Hopefully (and this appears to be the point of contention in this thread) with enough intelligence in the programming and robustness in the hardware to add benefit without causing additional wear.

The eLSD is particularly interesting to me, as this seems to be similar to what we're talking about. Basically a clutch-based rear locker, engaged selectively, to give performance like a LSD. You could argue that if they did it wrong (too much engagement for too long in the wrong conditions) they'd stress the LSD clutch too much and burn it out. And yet such cars don't (to my knowledge) enable to you to turn it off. Furthermore, the dashboard displays on some cars seem to indicate that it's always at least partially engaged.

4A is obviously different than an eLSD, it's engaging a clutch in the transfer case to selectively send power to the front wheels rather than selectively "locking" the rear wheels together. But on a broader level, I don't see why a well designed 4A system couldn't be controlled and/or built robustly enough to to withstand the stresses of running full time on dry pavement just like the eLSDs are.

Having said all of the above, I'm not a mechanical engineer, happy to be corrected. I don't run 4A all the time in my Bronco, I just don't see the need most of the time. More importantly (to me), I have two other cars that DO have clutches distributing power to various wheels that ARE constantly slipping (one of which can overheat when pushed hard on the track), so I hope this is a (mostly) solved problem.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/combining-electronic-controls-and-automatic-transmissions/

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/ask-tadge/4030900-answered-how-to-decipher-elsd-display.html

https://www.grcorollaforum.com/threads/gr-four-awd-system-discussion.321/

 

[dgorsett]

I have 2 words...Traction control.

The slippery mode DOES have a different algorithm than the other modes for determining "slip". In fact, I'll venture to say that bit is the most sensitive mode to use, It notices slip more than the other modes. With my BIG MEATS and slow sharp turns ( in slippery mode) I can FEEL AND HEAR the Traction control trying to "figure out" why the tires are spinning at completely different speeds. It's sounds and feels similar to TTA being active.

I have ALOT of personal testing with all the modes...for example I'll select a mode and then send it into a loose gravel corner WAY HARDER than I could ever keep contoll of, without the computer assisting, and to my complete amazement ( and relief) the Traction control has the ability to manage a sideways full slide, generating G forces that would NEVER be possible w/o Traction/stability controll. 99% will never understand how well this works because they don't trust the system well enough to actually test it!

While testing at way to high of speeds on loose gravel, my dash lights up.with this...yep the brakes have temperature sensors ( or an algorithm to calculate heat)


Additionally, I noticed the sport mode and slippery mode have different levels of 'assistance'...especially when accelerating out of the slippery corner while in full drift.

I don't have 4a but was thinking something like this. In Slippery the Bronco's somewhat notorious wheel speed sensors get a bit touchy and freak out when thrown into a tight turn,( ie u turn or parking spot.) and the AWD module tells the TC it senses slip and locks it up.

Question: The literature says when slip or potential slip is detected it engages 4wd. How does it know when the slip or potential slip condition is over and it should disengage?

 

[tourproto]

It’s copied directly out of the factory workshop manual.

Thank you!

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