4A issues. ford says this is normal?

[mpeugeot]

you're defining their behavior as "errant"--but they're doing what Ford tells them is OK to do.

You're back to you defining the behavior as problematic--despite, as you admit, you not knowing anything about it.


And you take that surface information and declare the engaging of 4A to be "errant"--contradicting Ford's customer facing documentation that turning this on is OK.

"Doctor doctor, it hurts when I do this."
"Don't do that. And anyway, you shouldn't want to do that."

What do your customers think of you when they read that Ford says it's OK but you're telling them "Ford is wrong"? Do you continue with that to say "Ford is wrong, but I have no direct information telling me why, it's just my imagination"?

Do you consider that their vehicle is broken when it misbehaves according to how Ford documents the behavior? Or do you just throw up your hands and say "Ford won't tell us how to fix it, so stop using the feature because clearly it doesn't work and clearly it was never intended to work the way they documented it"?

Do you TELL the customer "don't pay any attention to the documentation, that's not supposed to work"? What does the customer say to that?

I've worked for over 30 years in an environment not unlike car dealerships. Most techs don't know something not because the manufacturer didn't document it; usually it's a lack of professionalism and just generally "not good at his job". I've seen long time techs refuse to read the documentation. I see a great number of techs without any good troubleshooting skills. I've also seen great techs with superb skills who take the time to understand the theory of operation of the system, but those are few and far between.

And yes, the bad techs do what you say: "I don't know what's supposed to happen, so I can't troubleshoot it without a code". Or "huh, it doesn't sound to me like it's supposed to do what you're saying"--never mind that it's documented clearly to the customer.

There's also laziness--the tech just doesn't want to spend the time to track something down. He's just not the type to want to dig in and figure it out.

You complain that "Ford doesn't explain it to us." So make them. Keep after them. Frankly, I'm sure Ford does explain it, but what do I know. Anyway, your answer to this is, instead of chasing after Ford to solve that problem, is to say to the customer "so don't use it, then we won't be stuck with your service problem that we can't figure out how to handle". And you wonder why people have a bad opinion of car dealerships.


What data are you talking about? You have all of Ford's data?

"You said it was OK" is not the issue. You're the franchised dealership; FORD said it was OK, and that's all that matters. You contradicting that tells me volumes about whether or not I can trust you.

I will vouch for @flip, he's been a stand up guy in every dealing I have had with him and has always gone above and beyond for me (with no reason other than that is who he is).

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[mpeugeot]

But why would you want or need to be in AWD all the time, too much effort to push a button when needed? lol

Keeps tire wear more equal, plus I like how it accelerates off the line in 4A, I have a heavy foot. I guess if I wanted to be a drifter, maybe I could see using 2H.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

Keeps tire wear more equal, plus I like how it accelerates off the line in 4A, I have a heavy foot. I guess if I wanted to be a drifter, maybe I could see using 2H.

Tire wear is a valid point, I can definitely see a difference in the rear tread wearing more than the front. (I use 2wd almost exclusively on dry pavement)

The main reason I don't use 4A on the pavement, is because I don't care for the way the 2dr lifts the front under hard acceleration, Although I've notice it substantially less with a new alignment. I think more castor may alleviate this to some degree.

 

[huey]

No, there is zero documentation that states what he just said. To the contrary, not only does Ford documentation say there's no problem leaving it in 4A, Ford engineers have come out and said that it's perfectly fine to run it in 4A for the life of the vehicle.

What you're seeing are forum keyboard engineers whose expressing their feelings. And as we all know, feelings trump facts, right?

Yes - Ford docs do say that, but the other point is also valid. Why keep additional parts rotating/wearing when not truly needed? That's why it is easy to turn off an on. Just because you can does not mean you should. It is perfectly fine to run 4A on dry, but why if its not needed?

Good to read a discussion from two sides - but folks really don't need to be throwing rocks in a glass house. @adam1991 your posts read as emotional, they will be taken better if you just post opinions, but you do you

 

[Hemisfear]

you're defining their behavior as "errant"--but they're doing what Ford tells them is OK to do.

You're back to you defining the behavior as problematic--despite, as you admit, you not knowing anything about it.


And you take that surface information and declare the engaging of 4A to be "errant"--contradicting Ford's customer facing documentation that turning this on is OK.

"Doctor doctor, it hurts when I do this."
"Don't do that. And anyway, you shouldn't want to do that."

What do your customers think of you when they read that Ford says it's OK but you're telling them "Ford is wrong"? Do you continue with that to say "Ford is wrong, but I have no direct information telling me why, it's just my imagination"?

Do you consider that their vehicle is broken when it misbehaves according to how Ford documents the behavior? Or do you just throw up your hands and say "Ford won't tell us how to fix it, so stop using the feature because clearly it doesn't work and clearly it was never intended to work the way they documented it"?

Do you TELL the customer "don't pay any attention to the documentation, that's not supposed to work"? What does the customer say to that?

I've worked for over 30 years in an environment not unlike car dealerships. Most techs don't know something not because the manufacturer didn't document it; usually it's a lack of professionalism and just generally "not good at his job". I've seen long time techs refuse to read the documentation. I see a great number of techs without any good troubleshooting skills. I've also seen great techs with superb skills who take the time to understand the theory of operation of the system, but those are few and far between.

And yes, the bad techs do what you say: "I don't know what's supposed to happen, so I can't troubleshoot it without a code". Or "huh, it doesn't sound to me like it's supposed to do what you're saying"--never mind that it's documented clearly to the customer.

There's also laziness--the tech just doesn't want to spend the time to track something down. He's just not the type to want to dig in and figure it out.

You complain that "Ford doesn't explain it to us." So make them. Keep after them. Frankly, I'm sure Ford does explain it, but what do I know. Anyway, your answer to this is, instead of chasing after Ford to solve that problem, is to say to the customer "so don't use it, then we won't be stuck with your service problem that we can't figure out how to handle". And you wonder why people have a bad opinion of car dealerships.


What data are you talking about? You have all of Ford's data?

"You said it was OK" is not the issue. You're the franchised dealership; FORD said it was OK, and that's all that matters. You contradicting that tells me volumes about whether or not I can trust you.

Do you change your oil at 10,000 miles?

 

[thegoatman]

First order of business, change the TC fluid. Simple job, costs very little. Not getting into if it should be u or ford

 

[hey_mikey_]

does the transfer case have a center differential? if not, that's probably the reason for the binding during sharp turns on pavement and the difference in behavior from other true AWD systems. the 4A clutches can accommodate enough slip to compensate for left/right wheel speed differential in most turning conditions, but without a center differential, they'd have to slip continuously to not bind when presented with a larger difference in front/rear axle speed like you'd see in a very tight turn.

 

[BadlandsA51]

does the transfer case have a center differential? if not, that's probably the reason for the binding during sharp turns on pavement and the difference in behavior from other true AWD systems. the 4A clutches can accommodate enough slip to compensate for left/right wheel speed differential in most turning conditions, but without a center differential, they'd have to slip continuously to not bind when presented with a larger difference in front/rear axle speed like you'd see in a very tight turn.

The clutch in the transfer case acts as a
“differential”. Half of the plates are splined to the front drive shaft and the other half are splined to the rear. Any time the truck is turning the clutch has to slip.

 

[tourproto]

It is unlikly 4A was engineered for full time use on dry pavement. There is no point, why would anyone want to use it on dry pavement? And yes this is only my opinion, feel free ti disagree.

I am not a tranmission nerd but when Ford has documentation like this:

They are leaving themselves wide open to warranty litigation by not saying 4A is not intended for use on dry pavement. They clearly do so for 4H, which makes total sense.

Conversely they don't come out and explicitly say that it is OK to use 4A 100% of the time (I have looked), but every instance, like the above screenshot, it is implied that 4A can be used for on-road driving.

In their own videos, they do clearly state the 4A can be used in Sport mode with no disclaimers

But for Slippery mode, there is a clear disclaimer (at the bottom) to not use on dry pavement

Same for Mud mode.

To my reading comprehension, if I can use something in Sport mode when driving on road, I can also use it in Normal or Eco mode, but that's me.

There is certainly some "grey area" because Ford doesn't specifically say that 4A is fine to use 100% of the time on dry pavement, but they don't say it for 2H either, so to me it is implied to be OK.

Some folks have strong opinions that 4A should not be used on dry pavement. Until I hear that from Ford, I will continue to do so because I prefer how the Bronco performs in 4A, and changing road conditions (rain, dirt or otherwise) can appear at-will, and I prefer to be in a mode that can respond appropriately. I also like how 4A drives.

To me (and this is just me), this is similar to the "you need to change your diff and transfer case fluids at 25k miles" if you want your transmission to last xxx miles. I think there are lots of things you can do maintenance-wise that probably will have **some** effect in a car's longevity, but they may not be cost-efficient to do. Since I can't change diff fluids myself, I'm not going to do it at 25k miles, and I may not do it a 75K miles either, but I will happily change oil every 5k miles. Hypocritical? Maybe, but $100 is the tipping point for my cost-tradeoff analysis and an oil change is only $70.

As for the OP's original reason for the post, he was using 4A in slippery mode and my assumption is that he was on dry pavement (the OP can correct me if this assumption is wrong). Per the image above in the disclaimer, yeah resistance is expected because you aren't supposed to use that mode on dry pavement.

For me, I use 4A 100% on the road. I have no issues with low speed turning or parking, EVER. And I am doing this with the belief that the car is designed for 4A to be used 100% of the time without problem because nothing says it can't. Will it cause "more wear"? Yeah probably, but so will rock-crawling. I'm not gonna worry about it, and I have the 8 year 100K mileage $0 deductible warranty. So if it breaks, it breaks.

Don't even want to get into the tin-foil hat discussion about designing cars to only make it to the end of the warranty period. The factory warranty is 5 years/60k miles, so I've got an additional 3 years and 40k miles to cover me.

FYI, my last Ford was a 1998 Explorer also with 4A. We ran that in 4A 100% of the time and it made it to 2013 and 170k miles with no problem. We sold it to a friend, it is still running today with the original tranny (but I don't know if she runs in 4A all the time). I'll take my chances running in 4A/Normal GOAT mode all the time, because I like it.

 

[Ducati1098]

The 4A clutches can accommodate enough slip to compensate for left/right wheel speed differential in most turning conditions, but without a center differential, they'd have to slip continuously to not bind when presented with a larger difference in front/rear axle speed like you'd see in a very tight turn.

That's assuming the clutch is engaged to cause binding, which it shouldn't be in this case.
The clutch should be disengaged and able to spin freely without sending any power to the front to even cause binding.
If it isn't working correctly then yes, binding would occur, like in this case.

But for Slippery mode, there is a clear disclaimer (at the bottom) to not use on dry pavement

That disclaimer is likely because broncos with the part time transfer case who use slippery mode it defaults to 4H, which you can’t use on dry surfaces. So they can’t exactly say it’s acceptable in all cases.

Conversely they don't come out and explicitly say that it is OK to use 4A 100% of the time (I have looked), but every instance, like the above screenshot, it is implied that 4A can be used for on-road driving.

Yes they do. It’s been posted here multiple times saying it’s acceptable for all road conditions. That’s 100% of the time.

 

[Fordified1]

FYI, my last Ford was a 1998 Explorer also with 4A. We ran that in 4A 100% of the time and it made it to 2013 and 170k miles with no problem. We sold it to a friend, it is still running today with the original tranny (but I don't know if she runs in 4A all the time). I'll take my chances running in 4A/Normal GOAT mode all the time, because I like it.

We still have our 98 AWD Explorer (over 300k miles) that we bought in ‘99. It’s full time AWD and has a viscous coupler (clutch pack) inside the transfer case that works very similar to a limited slip differential. It works wonderfully unless you off-road it hard or play in snow too much which will damage the coupler. (ask me how I know lol). (I replaced the transfer case with a used one at somewhere around 150k miles) But 4A is not optional on ours, and I don’t remember any of that generation being selectable AWD except the true 4wd equipped Explorers which were selectable 4wd (not to be used on dry pavement) not AWD.
My understanding of the current 4A T-case is the vicious coupler has been replaced with a computer controlled clutch pack that brings the benefits of selectable 4wd and AWD together in one transfer case which is awesome when it’s working correctly. But as with any technology that’s relying on a bunch of sensors and controls it definitely could be quirky as we’re seeing with many of the new vehicles’ bells and whistles.

 

[BadlandsA51]

Something to keep in mind about different experiences with using 4A all the time is driving habits. If most of the miles put on the vehicle are highway, the clutch in the transfer case would see very little speed differential. Mostly around town would be a little different.

 

[tourproto]

Yes they do. It’s been posted here multiple times saying it’s acceptable for all road conditions. That’s 100% of the time.

Don't get me wrong, I use 4A 99% of the time on pavement with the other 1% for 4H or 4L when we get freezing rain or deep snow, and I have no intention to change that behavior.

But there are folks in this forum (and this thread) that "claim" it is not good practice.

Only point I am making is that I have yet to see FORD DOCUMENTATION that clearly states you can run 4A on pavement all the time. I am basing my decision from talking to Ford folks at the off-rodeo and what I infer from reading Ford documentation. But I have yet to see a piece of paper from Ford that explicitly says you can run 4A all the time on pavement. It doesn't say that in the owner's manual.

 

[markp5]

Drive in sport mode (which engages 4A) 90% of the time with no issues. Nothing wrong with accessing all of my performance mods on both street and trail.

 

[tourproto]

We still have our 98 AWD Explorer (over 300k miles) that we bought in ‘99. It’s full time AWD and has a viscous coupler (clutch pack) inside the transfer case that works very similar to a limited slip differential. It works wonderfully unless you off-road it hard or play in snow too much which will damage the coupler. (ask me how I know lol). (I replaced the transfer case with a used one at somewhere around 150k miles) But 4A is not optional on ours, and I don’t remember any of that generation being selectable AWD except the true 4wd equipped Explorers which were selectable 4wd (not to be used on dry pavement) not AWD.
My understanding of the current 4A T-case is the vicious coupler has been replaced with a computer controlled clutch pack that brings the benefits of selectable 4wd and AWD together in one transfer case which is awesome when it’s working correctly. But as with any technology that’s relying on a bunch of sensors and controls it definitely could be quirky as we’re seeing with many of the new vehicles’ bells and whistles.

Yes, we had the 4WD '98 Explorer XLT. It had a 4A (Auto) option on the dashboard dial.

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