Suspension Advice and Education needed

[crzyhawk]

Broncos are softly sprung and damped (especially a hoss 1 like yours) for off road use…your mustang is stiffer sprung and damped for on-road handling…you need stiffer coilovers for better on-road handing…might want to call someone like accutune…good luck!

Thank you, this is the kind of knowledge I'm looking for.

Right now I am learning; I'd rather only cry once on the price tag...and get what I want. I also do not want to go too far because in general, I am fairly happy. I'm not looking to carve corners, and the vehicle will see dirt from time to time, just a wee bit of bump to the feel when coming down those mountains at 70, hopefully without too much compromise.

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[Techun]

Hmm... shouldn't be a ton of nose dive, even on the stock hitachis. Do you have some weight on the front - like a steel bumper with a winch or anything?

There is absolutely a ton of nose dive (and body roll in general) compared to any car, especially a modern mustang.

 

[Willub]

Get your alignment checked. That has the biggest impact on a vehicle feeling “sketchy” at the speed limit.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Hmm... shouldn't be a ton of nose dive,

On my base Base, there is a ton of nose dive with the factory Hitachi's, like annoying/embarrassing amounts ... and honestly, I feel like there are A LOT of complaints about exactly that among the base (Hoss 1.0) suspension owners.

Otherwise, I feel the 2dr is pretty damn stable, BUT I see where OP feels sketched out as he is coming from a Mustang. Because of the soft suspension , there is a lot of body roll, but it doesn't really make me think it is unstable. The body may roll, but the tires still feel planted and maintain contact with the surface throughout the curves.
Me ... I'm coming from 1 ton work trucks and vans to the Bronco, so I have a bit different perspective.

I've kicked around swapping the coilovers to get a bit of lift and figure I can engineer out some of the dive and softness at the same time.
I've never really gave adding a rear track bar much thought, but that might be the first place for OP (and myself) to start .. assuming he/we don't have one.
After that, I'll either go with Bilsteins or Ford Perf coilovers ...OR ... the Eibachs set up with the heavier spring rate option.
From what I have read, the regular Eibachs have a ride very similar to factory and I'd rather firm it up a bit.
I feel like the Bilsteins or Eibachs w/ heavy springs will accomplish that either way, just through different means.

 

[Brian_B]

On my base Base, there is a ton of nose dive with the factory Hitachi's, like annoying/embarrassing amounts ... and honestly, I feel like there are A LOT of complaints about exactly that among the base (Hoss 1.0) suspension owners.

Otherwise, I feel the 2dr is pretty damn stable,

Hmm could be they are different on the 2Dr or the shorter wheel base exaggerates it or something. It’s been a while since I had the Hitachis on mine, and when I did it was with 35s, but I don’t recall any significant stability issues like the OP is describing. Sure it would dive and roll a bit but nothing thought was excessive or unusual — hence my comment.

That said I don’t discount yours.

I’d also say it’s subjective - I’ve never drove a Mustang or any type of sports car - always pickup trucks. So for me, the Bronco feels like it turns on a dime, accelerates like a jet, and is nimble as a cat. Someone coming from a Porsche would probably say it wallows like a pig.

 

[MDH]

yeah it’s got a much higher center of gravity than a mustang and will never feel as safe, especially if you drive it the same way. But +1 for getting new coilovers. The Hitachis are cheap junk. You could get a set of hoss 3 OEM Foxes (new or takeoffs) or jump up to aftermarket adjustable coilovers (king, fox, etc).

 

[ThunderFlash]

Bronco is no Mustang, but it's decent handling for what it is. Maybe you still need to tune your expectations a little. Also keep in mind if it's semi-isolated feelings your getting, grooved or heavily rutted roads can throw you a round a bit. That can feel more pronounced in a taller, softer sprung vehicle, particularly in curves.
That said, I'd personally consider the OEM rear sway bar first, if you have the OEM mounting points. 2-doors, except HOSS 3.0 rigs, don't have rear sway bars which control body lean while cornering. I'd wager that is what has you feeling uneasy about the ride, if everything thing else is stock, in specs, and good condition.
I'm personally going to try adding the OEM bar on my '22 HOSS 2.0 (has Eibach Pro Trucks with HD springs now) WT 2-door. I have some extra body motion with lots of added weight and 2" lift. The ride/handling just feels a little sloppy at times. The OEM bar is pretty small diameter (around 17 mm I'm told), so it should not be uber rigid which will hopefully keep the ride fairly compliant and minimize loss of rear suspension articulation.
I'm also told the rear sway bar used on 4-doors is the same as what's used on HOSS 3.0 2-doors. So I'm hoping to find one and the associated attachment bits 2nd hand and locally to keep the test budget in check. Many more mordoors than correct doors around . From what I've seen, new bars alone without the mounting hardware are about $130, but the shipping is as much or more! That just irritates me.

The next thing I'd consider is tires and maybe wheels. The real solution is likely in the suspension, but that is a very complex system and rife with personal preferences. The sway bar seems it could be a biggest bang for buck option towards your likely issue, though, and it's easily reversible if the effort is a bust.

Edit: And if you bought it used, make sure the front sway bar was not removed. That's not completely uncommon for people to do.

 

[crzyhawk]

Otherwise, I feel the 2dr is pretty damn stable, BUT I see where OP feels sketched out as he is coming from a Mustang. Because of the soft suspension , there is a lot of body roll, but it doesn't really make me think it is unstable. The body may roll, but the tires still feel planted and maintain contact with the surface throughout the curves.

I think you hit the nail on the head here and found some better words than I was using.

I tried to push a few times, and it never felt tippy, or even like the tires were about to let loose. A 2 door Black Diamond passed me going down one of those hills, and he clearly didn't feel sketched out. The actual limits have to be much farther than my "butt g-meter" were telling me...Say what you will about Ford, but I can't believe that after some of the fiascos they have had such as the Bronco II stability, and Pintos blowing up that they'd sell a vehicle that wasn't capable of safe highway speeds. So I think it's fair to say that it didn't feel unstable. It felt very uncomfortable, in a butt clenching kind of manner. I expect that feeling comes from higher COG and softer suspension that lets it "move" more when it transfers weight in a turn and that movement feels very unnatural to me.

At least that's what I think I am feeling. I've got some food for thought though. The swaybar idea has me intrigued. That's a pretty non-intrusive change that may help. Coilovers are also an option, and it sounds like something a bit more firm might be desirable for my usecase.

 

[MDH]

If you are very sensitive to the feel of your suspension (I am but I think most people are not), you might really benefit from the compression adjusters in aftermarket coilovers. keep it very soft for a bouncy truck-like feel on road, or tighten them way up for a much more firm, responsive feel. Or somewhere in the middle.

 

[23OBX2.7]

Let's see a Moose test!

 

[Muffin Top]

I tried to push a few times, and it never felt tippy, or even like the tires were about to let loose.

I've mostly driven truck-like SUVs, similar to Bronco, but larger. I'm used to the feel of trucks, and Bronco is better than what I'm used to. I specifically wanted Bronco because it's smaller and feels sportier than my other SUVs.

Cars are always going to have the advantage in feeling because of lower center of gravity.

Consider that Ford invested considerable time in evaluating Bronco's safety engineering. It's better than other new and used SUVs.

When I have a clear lane, I go very fast, with awareness that I can't make a sports car swerve if a critter darts across the road. Where I differ from other fast drivers is I don't tailgate and I don't weave in and out of traffic. You have to know the vehicle's limits.

One of the things that helped me learn was to read books about race car driving. The relevance is that on the street SUVs are closer to their performance limit than regular cars. If you skid, you don't panic, you don't over-correct, and the vehicle will regain traction after an unnerving fraction of a second (only happens to me when I do one of my "don'ts," above).

 

[23OBX2.7]

If the Germans can pull 1G skid pad in a 6000 lb SUV there's no reason Bronco can't get 0.6 or so...just need right dampers, tires and sway bars.

 

[dgorsett]

On my base Base, there is a ton of nose dive with the factory Hitachi's, like annoying/embarrassing amounts ... and honestly, I feel like there are A LOT of complaints about exactly that among the base (Hoss 1.0) suspension owners.

Otherwise, I feel the 2dr is pretty damn stable, BUT I see where OP feels sketched out as he is coming from a Mustang. Because of the soft suspension , there is a lot of body roll, but it doesn't really make me think it is unstable. The body may roll, but the tires still feel planted and maintain contact with the surface throughout the curves.
Me ... I'm coming from 1 ton work trucks and vans to the Bronco, so I have a bit different perspective.

I've kicked around swapping the coilovers to get a bit of lift and figure I can engineer out some of the dive and softness at the same time.
I've never really gave adding a rear track bar much thought, but that might be the first place for OP (and myself) to start .. assuming he/we don't have one.
After that, I'll either go with Bilsteins or Ford Perf coilovers ...OR ... the Eibachs set up with the heavier spring rate option.
From what I have read, the regular Eibachs have a ride very similar to factory and I'd rather firm it up a bit.
I feel like the Bilsteins or Eibachs w/ heavy springs will accomplish that either way, just through different means.

This. Lot's of nose dive, somewhat less with Bilstein 5100s but still there. Really it's the only annoying driving characteristic of the Bronco.

And the dive hasn't changed appreciably, with shock, bumper or winch install.

 

[Valhalla]

OP, if you get out and get used to it, it will be fine if it mechanically checks out. This is a body on frame. Your mustang is a unibody. This is made for clearance and soaking up obstacles with the suspension. Your mustang is made to corner. and feel stable when doing it. You are experiencing body roll. There are a lot of ways to limit travel. You might also look at a rear sway bar and a heavier spring. I have driven mustangs and owned 2. I have driven trucks always; you will roll to a place in the suspension then the springs will overcome it. You just need to decide if you want to spend the money to make this more sports car like or if you want to work on driving skill. Add 1 mph a week through the curve. get used to a multi purpose suspension. then decide if it is worth changing.

 

[crzyhawk]

^^ it's very rare that I run into an issue. where I feel sketched out. I wouldn't consider it a major problem. So far, I've noticed it twice in the year I've owned it, both times descending down mountain passes that I really only see on long road trips. Even getting out on the interstate and hitting corners don't feel quite the same, probably because the weight transfer's different. The first time I'd only had the vehicle for 2 weeks, I figured by now it would feel more comfy. And it did to an extent but not as much as I expected.

The plan's always been to replace the Hitachis once I get to about 50k miles on them for something with improved longevity. I had no specific performance gains in mind. Now I do. I'm not trying to recreate how my Mustang handles at all which seems to be a fairly common misconception. I think that idea is a bit preposterous. The Bronco's never going to do that, and I wouldn't want it to.

That doesn't mean it can't be improved. It also doesn't mean that it SHOULD be improved. I understand enough to know that there's no free lunch, so every adjustment to change one thing, is going to have consequences elsewhere, and for the most part I am generally happy. From what I've read here, and from Snacktime's suspension thread, I'm leaning towards thinking I want a little more stiffness. Before I take that step though, I am leaning towards a rear sway, first. But if I am going to replace the hitachis in the future anyways, should I just firm things up now? And so I waffle back and forth. The good news is, I don't feel like I HAVE to change anything NOW. If I do decide on a change, I want to make sure I make a GOOD change. I've got time to figure things out.

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