Suspension Advice and Education needed

[crzyhawk]

I'm trying to plan out future improvements, and I want to understand the nature of the decisions that I have to make. I don't know jack squat about suspension. So that being said, pardon my terminology. I'm hoping the folks who understand this stuff are able to sus out what my needs are based on what's likely going to be a poor description.

Ok, that out of the way, of relevance I drive a 24 2 door manual Big Bend non-squatch. It's currently got the stock 255/75/r17 Bridgestone Duelers on it. The current plan is, when I wear those out, I'll go 285/70/r17 in a decent AT tire. It's primarily a pavement princess, but will see some light offroad; road trips and car camping. As far as lifts, I'm not opposed to it outright, but it's not a goal. I don't think I have many options that won't lift me anyways.

I have few complaints with the suspension as it sits, however the one complaint I have is fairly major to me: Sharp curves at freeway speeds (over 65) sometimes feel kinda sketchy. I'm sorry I can't provide more information than that, the lack of vocabulary is biting me. I came home from a trip out to Illinois last night, and coming down some of the passes on I-68 in Western Maryland felt...not good. I've driven it twice in the Bronco now and both trips felt bad, the first time I chalked it up to the vehicle being new to me. I'm coming into my Bronco from Mustangs. I've owned Mustangs exclusively for the last 25 years. I've made the same trip in those Mustangs and never felt sketched out coming down those hills. I didn't feel anything in particular that I can point out. It never felt like I was about to lose grip or roll-over, anything like that. It just felt kinda bad. I know it's /safe/ as there was a 2 door black diamond that passed me on the same roads and he clearly didn't seem to be sketched out, so maybe it's just I need to grow a bigger pair or just could be a truck thing, I dunno. I won't learn if I don't ask though.

If there are mechanical changes I can make to my vehicle though to improve that aspect of handling without destroying everything else about it's on road manners, I'd like to learn. I planned on eventually scrapping the Hitachis anyways, as as mentioned the Duelers will go the way of the dodo as well. My gut is telling me that between those two items, there's a better feel to find. I suspect a bit stiffer ride coupled with slightly wider tires might make it a bit "better" feeling in those situations but I am not sure, and not even quite certain what the right questions to be asking are.

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[Brian_B]

2 doors don’t have the rear sway bar stock do they? That would make a decent difference right there

 

[EvilJim1971]

Does it feel like a lack of front grip, rear grip, lean, instability?
This vehicle has a higher roll center than you are used to, more weight, softer springs, less damping, less grip, shorter wheelbase... It is inherently less stable.
Trying to nail down what makes you uneasy will help with dealing with it.

 

[crzyhawk]

Does it feel like a lack of front grip, rear grip, lean, instability?
This vehicle has a higher roll center than you are used to, more weight, softer springs, less damping, less grip, shorter wheelbase... It is inherently less stable.
Trying to nail down what makes you uneasy will help with dealing with it.

I wish I could answer this question. I don't know what feels wrong about it, just that it feels somehow inadequate. It's fine at lower speeds, if I slow down, all is well. I don't feel like it should be handle like my Mustang. I wish I could put my finger on it. It might be everything you listed above. I know it's inherently less stable. It might even be that my body is higher, and I am just feeling the forces differently. Since it seems to be noticeable going down hill, may be the way it's transferring weight. I wish I could provide more info. I suspect that whatever causes nose dive when you slam on the brakes is probably part of the answer.

 

[Brian_B]

I suspect that whatever causes nose dive when you slam on the brakes is probably part of the answer.

Hmm... shouldn't be a ton of nose dive, even on the stock hitachis. Do you have some weight on the front - like a steel bumper with a winch or anything?

 

[crzyhawk]

No, it's about as light as it can get. It's a bottom feeder big bend with plastic bumper. The only "change" I've made was swapping in Badlands takeoff rims. I'm not sure it's really a ton of nose dive, it's more than my Mustang...perspective is key, and mine is very skewed. I expected that it was normal for a larger vehicle and wasn't super concerned about it.

Honestly, I am not 100% convinced that this is not a case of my butt being calibrated poorly due to years of driving a much different kind of vehicle. I kinda feel that not being scared at maintaining the speed limit is not an unreasonable ask though. There may be a "fix", may not be but I won't find an answer without asking. Your comment earlier about the rear sway might be a solution too. I am pretty sure I don't have one equipped.

 

[indio22]

I'm trying to plan out future improvements, and I want to understand the nature of the decisions that I have to make. I don't know jack squat about suspension. So that being said, pardon my terminology. I'm hoping the folks who understand this stuff are able to sus out what my needs are based on what's likely going to be a poor description.

Ok, that out of the way, of relevance I drive a 24 2 door manual Big Bend non-squatch. It's currently got the stock 255/75/r17 Bridgestone Duelers on it. The current plan is, when I wear those out, I'll go 285/70/r17 in a decent AT tire. It's primarily a pavement princess, but will see some light offroad; road trips and car camping. As far as lifts, I'm not opposed to it outright, but it's not a goal. I don't think I have many options that won't lift me anyways.

I have few complaints with the suspension as it sits, however the one complaint I have is fairly major to me: Sharp curves at freeway speeds (over 65) sometimes feel kinda sketchy. I'm sorry I can't provide more information than that, the lack of vocabulary is biting me. I came home from a trip out to Illinois last night, and coming down some of the passes on I-68 in Western Maryland felt...not good. I've driven it twice in the Bronco now and both trips felt bad, the first time I chalked it up to the vehicle being new to me. I'm coming into my Bronco from Mustangs. I've owned Mustangs exclusively for the last 25 years. I've made the same trip in those Mustangs and never felt sketched out coming down those hills. I didn't feel anything in particular that I can point out. It never felt like I was about to lose grip or roll-over, anything like that. It just felt kinda bad. I know it's /safe/ as there was a 2 door black diamond that passed me on the same roads and he clearly didn't seem to be sketched out, so maybe it's just I need to grow a bigger pair or just could be a truck thing, I dunno. I won't learn if I don't ask though.

If there are mechanical changes I can make to my vehicle though to improve that aspect of handling without destroying everything else about it's on road manners, I'd like to learn. I planned on eventually scrapping the Hitachis anyways, as as mentioned the Duelers will go the way of the dodo as well. My gut is telling me that between those two items, there's a better feel to find. I suspect a bit stiffer ride coupled with slightly wider tires might make it a bit "better" feeling in those situations but I am not sure, and not even quite certain what the right questions to be asking are.

My 2-door base Bronco handles like a boat compared to my BRZ. As it should, given the higher center of gravity, balloon tires and other attributes aimed at off-roading. So if frame of reference is your Mustangs, yeah the Bronco will be an adjustment.

If designing a well handling pavement vehicle, the Bronco has some of the last attributes you'd include. On the other hand, for it's class the Bronco performs decent on pavement.

I guess the key is making the most out of what the Bronco offers that the Mustang doesn't. Meaning utility usage and taking you places the Mustang can't.

 

[crzyhawk]

I 100% agree. The Bronco has a lot going for it that makes me prefer it as a daily to the Mustang, which I still own. That said, there may be some tasteful modifications that could be made to improve things. And there may not be, that's what I need to learn.

I see a lot of folks making claims that the sasquatch or the Wildtrak rides "better" for example than a HOSS 1.0. What's better mean? Perhaps there's some gains to be found over the stock Hitachis. I honestly don't know. If the answer is it's as good as it can be for my usecase without adding undue compromise, cool. Then I just adjust. If I can throw some cash at a solution that might suit my needs, I can swing that, I just don't know enough about suspensions to know what's reasonable, and feasible for my use case. It's all black magic to me. Once I find out what's both reasonable and feasible, then I can start asking myself the hard questions such as should I, and if I do, what are the consequences going to be because there's never any free lunch.

 

[EvilJim1971]

You can find Hoss 2.0 takeoffs at a reasonable price. They firm up the suspension while also offering a more comfortable ride.
I feel that they have the least nosedive of all the factory suspensions.
The tires on yours are undersized for the weight of the vehicle.
When set up better, you can actually hustle these things thru the curves.

 

[Enginerd]

My 2-door base Bronco handles like a boat compared to my BRZ. As it should, given the higher center of gravity, balloon tires and other attributes aimed at off-roading. So if frame of reference is your Mustangs, yeah the Bronco will be an adjustment.

If designing a well handling pavement vehicle, the Bronco has some of the last attributes you'd include. On the other hand, for it's class the Bronco performs decent on pavement.

I guess the key is making the most out of what the Bronco offers that the Mustang doesn't. Meaning utility usage and taking you places the Mustang can't.

Yip, different tools for different use cases. Do not expect Bronco to handle like a sports car, it does other things much better and takes you places a sport car can’t.

Many folks on this forum are car enthusiasts and have the best of both worlds well beyond my means, pick the right tool for the task at hand.

You can always improve, and adjust, but a Bronco and a Mustang are very different in on road handling dynamics. Take the mustang off road and let us know how that goes…

 

[crzyhawk]

There's a difference between carving corners and expecting the bronco to feel safe at the speed limit.

 

[crzyhawk]

You can find Hoss 2.0 takeoffs at a reasonable price. They firm up the suspension while also offering a more comfortable ride.
I feel that they have the least nosedive of all the factory suspensions.
The tires on yours are undersized for the weight of the vehicle.
When set up better, you can actually hustle these things thru the curves.

Yes, I am hoping that when I swap the tires, that's going to make things feel a bit better. How it all ties together are the questions I want to answer. Once I know what's possible and reasonable, I can make more informed decisions on the extent of changes I want to consider. What I do NOT want to do, is make changes willy-nilly and find I have damaged the overall. This is something that's cropped up twice in a year. It's not a problem that I run into every day.

 

[EvilJim1971]

Yes, I am hoping that when I swap the tires, that's going to make things feel a bit better. How it all ties together are the questions I want to answer. Once I know what's possible and reasonable, I can make more informed decisions on the extent of changes I want to consider. What I do NOT want to do, is make changes willy-nilly and find I have damaged the overall. This is something that's cropped up twice in a year. It's not a problem that I run into every day.

See if you can get a ride in a non Wildtrak Sasquatch 2 door. That will let you know what the suspension and tire swap will do... Then make some decisions from there?

 

[23OBX2.7]

I just came from HPP Mustang Convertible. You can not compare the two at all.

Get a Hellwig rear sway bar. That will make a difference on brake dive and roll. Also get your tires to 36 psi.

Swapping to AT is downgrade on the street. You need to swap to more highway orientated touring or UHP as maybe even go to 20s with lower profile for better street cornering performance.

More lift and bigger tires on 17s was scary on highway testing evasive lane changes....need OBX springs on some no lift Bilsteins or Ohlins on 18-20 wheels.

It's only 5000 lb vehicle...

 

[RK Racing]

I Say go for some good quality adjustable shocks and then YOU can fine tune it to how you like your cornering to feel.

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