Make My V8 Bronco Raptor, Ford!!! Things Done Changed!

[Roger123]

I betcha if you polled the general public though... more people would rather have a hybrid Bronco than a V8 Bronco.

Unfortunately that is probably true but the reason is more than likely government marketing.

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[Roger123]

In my opinion that just reveals the effectiveness of a certain point of view pushed by all the significant institutions (media, government, schools, etc.)

If most people understood the actual pros and cons of hybridization, how little of the actual cost of their vehicle ownership is gasoline, how clean the emissions of modern ICE engines ( including powerful V8's) actually are, etc. those sorts of polls would turn out quite different.

You beat me to it.

 

[adam1991]

But, heh, it's bragging points in the mall lot cars and coffee.

there you go.

 

[adam1991]

The "general public" are perfectly happy with whatever their salesman tells them they need

Truth. "Here are our rows of white LX trim SUVs, and here are our rows of black LX trim SUVs. Pick one, and we'll write you up for a 3 year lease!"

 

[Roger123]

Meanwhile, the 4xe PHEV is the best selling PHEV in North America and accounts for about a quarter of Wrangler sales.

They sell because they are pushed on people who have no idea or concern what the heck they're buying. It's the new "cool thing" so sure sign me up for one of those. Oh, I get some money off too, well heck yea!! Wait, what, it weighs a whole bunch more, is super complex and no one can fix them???

My daughter bought a new CRV, guess what, it's a hybrid. She could give two sh*ts less what kind of engine it has, she just wanted a CRV and guess what, that's all you can get in anything above the basic model.

Now she has a car with all the added complexity, weight, and less cargo space with no spare tire so it can get a couple better MPG? She doesn't care about the mileage or saving the planet, she wanted a CRV.

She's in no way a car person, like 99% of the population, car manufacturers were incentivized to force these things on us and they did. Now they aren't so I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[TeocaliMG]

I'm late to the thread but it needs to be made clear that the V8's aren't leaving because of the general public or accountants (well kind of), it is accountant related, but not because people don't want them. Its because of CAFE. The way emissions regs are pegged to wheelbases and vehicle classes make it expensive for the OEM to offer V8's from a compliance standpoint. Any V8 sold is a hit to CAFE that needs to be offset with credits or sales of a more compliant vehicle. Thats why it's easy to see V8's where demand and profit margin are the highest (mustangs and raptors), but hard to see them basically anywhere else. (Edit: you see them tons in superduty/bigger work trucks both out of performance demand and CAFE exemption over 8500 lbs)

If CAFE ended, or was significantly reworked, we would see V8's and smaller vehicles in dealership lots as fast as they could be developed and launched.

of course some hybrids do sell very well, but again this is tied to the OEM sales model. If you can only afford to offer a few V8's (outside of the heavy/work class) obviously you are going to do it in the most expensive rigs possible so reviewing sales data from the past few decades is extremely misleading in that regard.

 

[RagnarKon]

Unfortunately that is probably true but the reason is more than likely government marketing.

Honestly, I'm skeptical about that argument these days. Yes, I do think some environmentally conscience people are swayed by the "let's go green!" way of thinking, but frankly most of them are likely not buying Broncos or larger vehicles anyway. They're probably off buying small cars, crossovers, or full EVs.

I think a lot of it is that hybrids are now roughly price parity with pure-ICE vehicles. F-150 XLT V-8 is roughly $57k. F-150 XLT Hybrid is currently $58k... a little less than $1000 more. If you drive around 15,000 miles a year, you can make up that $1000 cost delta in about 2-3 years at current fuel prices. Anything beyond that is gravy.

And the fact that the F-150 Hybrid has on-board portable power, gets up to 700 mile range, and has higher horsepower and torque numbers when compared to the V-8, and I think it starts to make a lot of sense for a lot of people. Not everyone of course, but a lot of people.

---

Say they offered a hybrid Bronco with up to a 700 mile range, the ability to power my cooler even when the vehicle isn't running, better horsepower/torque numbers than the V-6 EcoBoost, and still have the ability to refuel with jerry cans when necessary.... all for only a few thousand dollars more. Well... I'll be honest... the only thing left keeping me attached to ICE at that point is the manual transmission. Take that away, and I struggle to come up with excuses as to why I shouldn't buy the hybrid.

But again, that's just me, everyone is in a different situation.

 

[GPPBronco]

I hope everyone’s big engine vroom vroom “truck nuts for president” dreams come true. Mostly so you’ll STFU.

 

[Spooled]

I hope everyone’s big engine vroom vroom “truck nuts for president” dreams come true. Mostly so you’ll STFU.

I'll cosign on this comment and sentiment

 

[RoLyMa27]

I hope everyone’s big engine vroom vroom “truck nuts for president” dreams come true. Mostly so you’ll STFU.

 

[Bender]

The 392 didn’t sell well, outside of the rich poser crowd ($100K for a $25K Jeep), because it can’t wheel. The fuel pump is trash on purpose, which means the engine cuts when driving on an incline in anything under a completely full fuel tank. Who would want that? Jeep didn’t give the 392 a robust pump for a V8 because Italy/France and they didn’t care. Those who know cars get what listing those two countries means.

Anyway, the 4xe sells to even more posers who are a bit more normal ($$) because it got $7500 off the top of the normal already discounts. Now that $7500 of free gov money for the already fairly wealthy is gone, it won’t sell anymore. It also can’t wheel worth a damn.

Without gov welfare incentives, EVs won’t sell because they just aren‘t what people want. That’s not politics, it’s just the truth.

The charging infrastructure is horrible and most Americans like a good roadtrip and not everyone takes the interstate due to traffic and potential for accidents, and there’s the general public who traverse them very poorly all the time. Even off the interstate networks, EV fast charging is terrible. Basically, you can’t go too far over 200 miles and for me, that won’t even get me to the beach which is like 280 miles one way and my state has a coast!

The 392 wheels just fine, as evidenced by the number of videos of it conquering Moab and elsewhere. Yes, I've seen at least 2 anecdotes of fuel pump issues on an incline, but I've seen more anecdotes of early Broncos needing a new engine. It doesn't sell well because it's a $100K toy and there isn't a huge audience for that.

The 4xe can wheel well too, unless there's an issue between the seat and the steering wheel. A $7500 incentive will absolutely affect the number of buyers, but some people, myself included, actually do care about what they spend on gas or like the ability to charge at home and use no gas on most days.

Private charging infrastructure already exists for people that have a garage, and the public charging infrastructure is a work in progress that was improving, although the OBBBA will slow that down going forward.

I'm not suggesting that you don't or shouldn't want a big ol' V8 in the Bronco. I'm just saying not everyone shares your view. I'd much prefer to have an EV Bronco with a frunk, lower maintenance, more power, less noise (at low speed if we're honest about aerodynamics), less moving parts, the ability to refuel at home, etc

 

[AZ_Craig]

The 4xe can wheel well too, unless there's an issue between the seat and the steering wheel. A $7500 incentive will absolutely affect the number of buyers, but some people, myself included, actually do care about what they spend on gas or like the ability to charge at home and use no gas on most days.

Private charging infrastructure already exists for people that have a garage, and the public charging infrastructure is a work in progress that was improving, although the OBBBA will slow that down going forward.

I'm not suggesting that you don't or shouldn't want a big ol' V8 in the Bronco. I'm just saying not everyone shares your view. I'd much prefer to have an EV Bronco with a frunk, lower maintenance, more power, less noise (at low speed if we're honest about aerodynamics), less moving parts, the ability to refuel at home, etc

So the 4xe is absolutely notorious for reliability issues and buy backs. I think they finally mostly sorted it out after several model years, but it definitely helped scare me off when I was seriously considering one before going Bronco.

The cargo volume hit I also decided was a non starter given how compromised a Wrangler is to start with (another thing that pushed me towards a Bronco).

I have nothing against hybrids, but when it screws up packaging and cargo volume in utilitarian vehicles (another major problem with the hybrid max Toyotas), I see it as an unacceptable compromise.

Personally, after 19 months with my EV6 GT (including 35 days off the road for various problems and a lemon law settlement) I am probably going back to an ICE vehicle. I have only had it out of the Phoenix metro area once, and that was a trip to Flagstaff. Charging at home is great and super cheap. Charging otherwise sucks. You need no less than 6 or 7 apps on your phone plus researching infrastructure along your route is a must. I also deeply worry about travel when you are dependent on a single charging station (like the electrify America station between Phoenix and Yuma in Dateland), knowing you could end up waiting hours as morons charge their vehicles to 100 percent on a DC fast charger. Additionally, the price premium for fast charging is so significant that your "fuel" cost in your EV may be significantly higher than a comparable gas vehicle...

Putting gas in your car is always going to be simpler until fast chargers are as ubiquitous as gas stations. And, I quite frankly do not know if that is ever going to happen or it's at least 20 plus years out.

When I can afford to have a 3rd vehicle as an EV in the distant future maybe I will get one then. For the time being, I would rather have the flexibility of having 2 ICE vehicles as a dual vehicle household.

 

[Bender]

They sell because they are pushed on people who have no idea or concern what the heck they're buying. It's the new "cool thing" so sure sign me up for one of those. Oh, I get some money off too, well heck yea!! Wait, what, it weighs a whole bunch more, is super complex and no one can fix them???

My daughter bought a new CRV, guess what, it's a hybrid. She could give two sh*ts less what kind of engine it has, she just wanted a CRV and guess what, that's all you can get in anything above the basic model.

Now she has a car with all the added complexity, weight, and less cargo space with no spare tire so it can get a couple better MPG? She doesn't care about the mileage or saving the planet, she wanted a CRV.

She's in no way a car person, like 99% of the population, car manufacturers were incentivized to force these things on us and they did. Now they aren't so I guess we'll see what happens.

They aren't pushed on people any more than a carton of almond milk is pushing people away from dairy. It's just an alternative option that exists today.

Your daughter should be pleased to know that the weight difference is negligible, Honda dealers are fully capable of fixing them and have done so for years, and the fuel economy is much better than just a few MPG. As a bonus, she'll get less wear and tear on the engine and brakes.

 

[stampede1]

The 392 wheels just fine, as evidenced by the number of videos of it conquering Moab and elsewhere. Yes, I've seen at least 2 anecdotes of fuel pump issues on an incline, but I've seen more anecdotes of early Broncos needing a new engine. It doesn't sell well because it's a $100K toy and there isn't a huge audience for that.

The 4xe can wheel well too, unless there's an issue between the seat and the steering wheel. A $7500 incentive will absolutely affect the number of buyers, but some people, myself included, actually do care about what they spend on gas or like the ability to charge at home and use no gas on most days.

Private charging infrastructure already exists for people that have a garage, and the public charging infrastructure is a work in progress that was improving, although the OBBBA will slow that down going forward.

I'm not suggesting that you don't or shouldn't want a big ol' V8 in the Bronco. I'm just saying not everyone shares your view. I'd much prefer to have an EV Bronco with a frunk, lower maintenance, more power, less noise (at low speed if we're honest about aerodynamics), less moving parts, the ability to refuel at home, etc

The most compelling case against the 392 and its fuel pump deficiency can be seen on the Trail Recon video. The Trail Recon is a diehard Jeep fan but he sold the 392 because of the pump failure that was evident not only on his but many others as well and Jeep was unable to remedy the design failure. That is totally unacceptable on a 100k vehicle that should be supremely engineered for off roading. And as for 100 k toys, there are a boatload out there from Defenders, Grenadiers, high end Jeeps and Broncos, etc., no they are not a rare breed at all.

 

[Valhalla]

Lots of this and that and coyotes and hybrids here... Thought I'd weigh in on this. I'm happy for the power of my 2.7, I would however love a 289 based naturally aspirated motor that has an external water pump and a deeper ford depth than our current offerings. I do love a v8, I think you can make them efficient... Build around torque and not HP.
I do think the passion of both of the sides of the argument are legitimate. But man it would be nice to have a injected 289!!!

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