Switch or Solenoid for Winch

[Brian_B]

Keep it simple. Don't overthink.

I would say - front winch, where the wiring is all really short - yeah, I don't have a problem not running with a fuse. Especially with a disconnect or solenoid in there.

But running to the rear... I absolutely would want something in there, even with a disconnect of some sort. That's a long, big, fat wire and a lot of area for something to go wrong - rubbing against a chassis corner, getting hung up on a stick and skinning the insulation, having a rock poke it wrong, whatever.

That said - that's my rig and my money. What someone else wants to do with their rig and their money, I won't get in their way.

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[SierraBronco]

I would say - front winch, where the wiring is all really short - yeah, I don't have a problem not running with a fuse. Especially with a disconnect or solenoid in there.

But running to the rear... I absolutely would want something in there, even with a disconnect of some sort. That's a long, big, fat wire and a lot of area for something to go wrong - rubbing against a chassis corner, getting hung up on a stick and skinning the insulation, having a rock poke it wrong, whatever.

Hungry mices, someone needing to send a very important text and smashing in to you…

 

[AMCheese]

Just mounted my compressor under the hood and was thinking about the best way to power it. Thanks to this thread just purchased the Adventure Lab bracket kit, not sure which fuse to purchase for this air compressor? I don't think I need 400 amp worth of protection, any one know what I should use? I don't think the compressor will pull more than 90 amp, so maybe a 100 amp fuse?

 

[Brian_B]

I don't think I need 400 amp worth of protection, any one know what I should use? I don't think the compressor will pull more than 90 amp, so maybe a 100 amp fuse?

Fuse has to be big enough to accommodate the amp rating of whatever you are running - which should be a spec of the equipment. So for your compressor - 90A is the given amps.

Then you want to add a bit of margin to that - because running amps and starting amps are two different things. It usually takes a bit of "umph" for electrical stuff to start - so it will surge a bit (totally normal) for start-up. If there is no given "startup current" - then I usually add about 25%. You don't want your fuse to blow every other time you start it up just because it has a totally normal high initial draw.

So - say 112A surge rating. (yes, in real life this can be much much higher, but it's also for a very short time, so you get into time delays and such - most of which is really is unnecessary for basic automotive electrical)

Now take that, and round up to the next standard size fuse. There are 120 and 140A fuses available as block fuses, and I see standard 120A and 150A inline fuses that fits most standard ANL-style holders. Any of those would be fine really - your preference. Could also pick a resettable circuit breaker, like a Bussman CB185-120.

Now - to complete this circle. Whatever size you pick for your fuse or breaker - that's what you have to size your wire to.

So you may only have a 90A compressor, but if you put a 150A fuse on there, you need to make sure the wire can handle 150A. We often say at work: Fuses protect wire - Loads protect themselves.

All of that said - your 100A idea would probably work fine too and you are onto the right track.

 

[SierraBronco]

Just mounted my compressor under the hood and was thinking about the best way to power it. Thanks to this thread just purchased the Adventure Lab bracket kit, not sure which fuse to purchase for this air compressor? I don't think I need 400 amp worth of protection, any one know what I should use? I don't think the compressor will pull more than 90 amp, so maybe a 100 amp fuse?

Remember that the fuse is to protect your circuit aka the wiring, not so much the device. It’s on us to make certain we run the correct wires to safely supply the device with enough power. Look at what size wiring came with the compressor, the actual wiring itself, not just the outside diameter of the insulation. Some vendors are putting more insulation on their wires to make them seem thicker but in reality their 8G wire might be a 10G. If you’re under the hood you likely don’t have a long run of wiring unless you looped it around a couple times, but overall length of the wire is also taken into account. Then verify whether it is pure copper or copper clad aluminum and pick your fuse size based on that. (CCA can’t handle the same amperage as pure copper in the same size and would need to be fused accordingly) If it’s not enough for your compressor, you need to get bigger wires.

 

[Karl_in_Chicago]

What you’re missing?

Cue up some clown music, have everything go to shit. Get pissed. Do it again. Have a shot of whiskey. Open web browser and live the good life.

PS - shot of whiskey is for optional, but highly recommended, even when using the web browser.

I honestly don't know what you are saying here. I was just asking if there is an app as I thought that's what you were talking about but I guess not. Again, I really don't understand.

 

[SierraBronco]

I honestly don't know what you are saying here. I was just asking if there is an app as I thought that's what you were talking about but I guess not. Again, I really don't understand.

I took it as you’re missing a clown show as the app is a bit of a joke.

**he types into the app**

 

[nolimits]

I honestly don't know what you are saying here. I was just asking if there is an app as I thought that's what you were talking about but I guess not. Again, I really don't understand.

Sorry, didn’t mean to come across as a smart ass. I was just venting about the app. More or less it does the same as the web version. Message alerts and taking you there directly is something it does a little better. However, if you check your email often you get those alerts on email anyhow.

But as noted, it’s a bit of a clown show because it doesn’t work very well as-is.

 

[Brian_B]

Look at what size wiring came with the compressor, the actual wiring itself, not just the outside diameter of the insulation

This is a good hint at what size to start with - but inside a device manufacturers don't follow the same guidelines for ampacity that you do for distribution wiring - it's an entire different standard, and you can see some ~very~ small wiring inside some of these devices for big loads. There's also length of cable run to consider and voltage drops and what not - those same rules don't apply (to the same extent) internal to a device.

(to be fair, SierraBronco mentions all of this later on - just want to make sure someone isn't looking at 6 inch #10 pigtails on their 90A air compressor and thinking they can just match that and be just fine running 25' of wire back to their tailgate)

So - yeah, wiring on a thing is good to get a starting point, but it's no substitute for a ampacity chart. Often you will need a size or two up from what's on the device itself.

I'd also caution - doubling up wire isn't the same thing as going up to the next size. Amp load is proportional to cross sectional area, which goes up as the square of the radius... The distance part of an ampacity chart will be entirely inaccurate for multiple cables as well - that has to do with voltage drop, and that's due to internal resistance which, again, is going to be proportional to the amount of metal in the cable (cross-sectional area)

 

[nolimits]

I'd also caution - doubling up wire isn't the same thing as going up to the next size. Amp load is proportional to cross sectional area, which goes up as the square of the radius... The distance part of an ampacity chart will be entirely inaccurate for multiple cables as well - that has to do with voltage drop, and that's due to internal resistance which, again, is going to be proportional to the amount of metal in the cable (cross-sectional area)

Short version, bigger is better. That’s what she said, lol.

Keep in mind those nice charts are showing 1 wrap on the winch drum... This is not realistic. It rarely happens that you will pull loads with 1 wrap. Meaning you will have a higher load / amp draw for whatever weight you are pulling (most of the time - compared to the charts). And typically, your load will be increasing as you winch (winch ratio changing with additional wraps on the drum). Plus your voltage will be dropping as you winch (compounding the AMP draw).

Put a volt meter on your battery while running the winch (under load) for 30 seconds. Watch your voltage drop. Those charts don't specify what voltage for the listed load. The assumption is 12V. Yes, the alternator can assist to offset but it may only produce 150-200amps (depending on model). Battery voltage will drop with winching. As the voltage drops your amperage will increase.

I'd be careful adding additional complication into the system. The more connections the more failure points. The other thing I'd consider would be a high amp fuse. But keep in mind most fuses need about 20% buffer (400amp load = 480amp fuse) Fuse also needs to be rated for the "under hood conditions" (heat/water). You'd also want to carry spares.

The worst thing is your "safety" "protection" systems failing when you really need the winch. I've been in positions where the winch NEEDS to work and trail repairs are not feasible (think near roll over).

Keep it simple. Don't overthink.

Appreciate this experience and insight.

Didn't mean to mislead anyone with my charts. I created those when I was trying to decide what to buy and simply used the data the manufacturers give in their manuals, etc.

I do agree with you though. We get a pretty limited view of the technical data from all the manufacturers. At least Warn makes theirs easily accessible online. Some of them I had to call and request, which they did promptly respond but seemed like an unnecessary step. Generally speaking they all want to provide data showing the biggest/best numbers to help them sell more product. I get that but wish their was a nerd option that let you see the different layers, load conditioning, duty cycles, etc.

Speaking of duty cycles, Warn basically told me to pound sand. Said anything not industrial isn’t duty rated and recreational. This includes some of their more pricey models. One of the other manufacturers said they recommend running 30 seconds and then resting a few minutes before running again….but had no documentation and acted like I was pulling their teeth to get that info.

 

[Brian_B]

Speaking of duty cycles, Warn basically told me to pound sand.

Well, I guess the silver lining to this is, if they don't publish a spec, then if it does eat gears because you decide to grind it for 15 minutes straight it's covered under that limited lifetime warranty.

 

[nolimits]

Well, I guess the silver lining to this is, if they don't publish a spec, then if it does eat gears because you decide to grind it for 15 minutes straight it's covered under that limited lifetime warranty.

That’s what I’m talking about.

 

[nolimits]

@Sloth
@Freebird32
@vrtical
@SierraBronco
@da_jokker

Or anyone else that has a physical Stinger 500 amp relay in hand….what are the two screw sizes on top?

The primary power bolts look larger, M8’s maybe? The switch bolts are smaller, maybe M5 or M6’s?

Alternatively if you know the nut/wrench size then I can work backwards.

Trying to make sure all my ring terminals for various wires are properly sized before I hit the buy button.

 

[Freebird32]

Nuts are 5/16 and 9/16. Not metric. Posts are 3/16 and 1/4. Box says large terminal accepts 5/16 ring terminal. I bought some copper crimp lugs on Amazon to terminate the cable ends. I used 4 awg wire same as Warn OEM kit.

 

[Freebird32]

Smaller posts i used some terminals from an assortment i had with 18 awg wire.

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