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Asked Chat GTP for track bar advice

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So Chat GTP can straight out fabricate information, but it can also be a great tool. I was curious to learn a little more. Here is what it told me about track bar's.
(I believe, but have not verified, a stock track bar is 44" long eyelet to eyelet)


Ford Bronco {thread} {filename}


If I increase the ride height of a bronco by 2" how much longer should the rear track bar be, and show me the formula




The length adjustment needed for a rear track bar when increasing the ride height of a vehicle can be calculated using the following formula:
ΔL = (ΔH * L) / W
Where: ΔL is the length adjustment of the track bar ΔH is the change in ride height (in this case, 2" or 2 inches) L is the original length of the track bar W is the original wheelbase of the vehicle
Please note that this formula assumes a straight track bar and that the suspension geometry remains unchanged except for the ride height adjustment.
To apply this formula to your specific situation, you'll need to know the original length of the rear track bar and the wheelbase of your Bronco. Once you have those values, substitute them into the formula to calculate the required length adjustment.
For example, let's say the original length of the rear track bar is 40 inches, and the wheelbase of the Bronco is 100 inches:
ΔL = (2 * 40) / 100 ΔL = 80 / 100 ΔL = 0.8 inches
According to the calculation, you would need to increase the length of the rear track bar by approximately 0.8 inches when raising the ride height of your Bronco by 2 inches.
Keep in mind that this formula provides a rough estimate, and it's always recommended to consult with suspension experts or refer to manufacturer guidelines for specific recommendations regarding track bar length adjustments.

Ford Bronco {thread} {filename}


The rear track bar is 44" long correct for that




Apologies for the oversight. Let's recalculate the length adjustment for the rear track bar using the corrected length of 44 inches:
ΔL = (ΔH * L) / W
Given: ΔH = 2 inches (change in ride height) L = 44 inches (original length of the rear track bar) W = Wheelbase of the vehicle (unknown)
Since we don't have the specific wheelbase value for your Bronco, I'll provide the formula without substituting the actual wheelbase. You can insert the correct wheelbase value to obtain the precise length adjustment:
ΔL = (2 * 44) / W
To determine the exact length adjustment, you need to measure or find the wheelbase of your Bronco. Once you have the wheelbase value, substitute it into the formula to calculate the required length adjustment for the rear track bar.

Ford Bronco {thread} {filename}


Wheel base is 116.1" (4-Door)




Thank you for providing the wheelbase of your Bronco. Now we can calculate the correct length adjustment for the rear track bar:
ΔL = (ΔH * L) / W
Given: ΔH = 2 inches (change in ride height) L = 44 inches (original length of the rear track bar) W = 116.1 inches (wheelbase of the Bronco)
ΔL = (2 * 44) / 116.1 ΔL = 88 / 116.1 ΔL ≈ 0.7587 inches
According to the calculation, you would need to increase the length of the rear track bar by approximately 0.7587 inches when raising the ride height of your Bronco by 2 inches.
Again, it's important to note that this calculation assumes a straight track bar and that the suspension geometry remains unchanged except for the ride height adjustment. If possible, it's recommended to consult with suspension experts or refer to manufacturer guidelines for specific recommendations regarding track bar length adjustments.

Ford Bronco {thread} {filename}


How much will the axle be off center if I dont add a adjustable track bar ?




If you increase the ride height of your vehicle without adjusting the track bar, the axle will likely be off-center. The amount of off-center displacement will depend on several factors, including the specific suspension geometry and the degree of the ride height increase.
Without an adjustable track bar to accommodate the increased ride height, the axle will be pulled towards the side opposite to the track bar's attachment point on the frame. This is because the track bar acts as a link that helps keep the axle centered under normal ride height conditions.
The exact amount of off-center displacement can vary, but it's typically in the range of half the amount of the ride height increase. In your case, with a 2-inch ride height increase, the axle could be displaced approximately 1 inch towards one side.
This off-center axle position can affect the vehicle's handling, stability, and tire wear. It may cause uneven tire wear and could potentially lead to alignment issues. To mitigate these effects and maintain proper axle alignment, it is recommended to install an adjustable track bar that can be adjusted to the appropriate length for the new ride height.
By adjusting the track bar to match the new ride height, you can ensure that the axle remains centered, providing better stability and handling characteristics for your vehicle.
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Why not just raise the track bar mount by the amount of lift you added to keep it nearly horizontal?
Perfectly valid way to do it and probably the better solution for most, I prefer the idea of an adjustable one only because I owned my 73 bronco for 20 years and used it differently over that time. I also have the stiffness of the stock lower and upper links present in my head and was looking allot at the Metal Cloak offerings, so a bit of a recency bias.
 
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That’s pretty impressive how well the explanation and adjustments for your inputs were.

We can validate allot of what we think we know, and better inform ourselves, but is probably less valid the more esoteric we push into something. We really need 80% of the variables or more.
 

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Just had a ~ 2.5" rear lift install with a new adjustable track bar,, now I'm curious what its length is vs stock. Will measure later today.
 
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Just had a ~ 2.5" rear lift install with a new adjustable track bar,, now I'm curious what its length is vs stock. Will measure later today.
If your trackbar was originally 44" AND YOU HAVE A 4-DOOR WITH A 116.1 WHEEL BASE. IT thinks your new trackbar should be set to about 45"from eyelet to eyelet.

The 44" just came from what I saw on a
metal cloak installation instruction (Image B1)



Thank you for providing the original length of the rear track bar as 44 inches. With this information, we can calculate the length adjustment needed for the rear track bar when increasing the ride height by 2.5 inches using the formula:

ΔL = (ΔH * L) / W

Given: ΔH = 2.5 inches (change in ride height) L = 44 inches (original length of the rear track bar) W = 116.1 inches (wheelbase of the Bronco)

ΔL = (2.5 * 44) / 116.1 ΔL = 110 / 116.1 ΔL ≈ 0.9479 inches

According to the calculation, you would need to increase the length of the rear track bar by approximately 0.9479 inches when raising the ride height of your Bronco by 2.5 inches.

Please note that this calculation provides an estimate, and it's always recommended to consult with suspension experts or refer to manufacturer guidelines for specific recommendations regarding track bar length adjustments. They can provide more precise measurements based on your specific vehicle and suspension setup.
 

MyDogGoldie

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If your trackbar was originally 44" AND YOU HAVE A 4-DOOR WITH A 116.1 WHEEL BASE. IT thinks your new trackbar should be set to about 45"from eyelet to eyelet.

The 44" just came from what I saw on a
metal cloak installation instruction (Image B1)



Thank you for providing the original length of the rear track bar as 44 inches. With this information, we can calculate the length adjustment needed for the rear track bar when increasing the ride height by 2.5 inches using the formula:

ΔL = (ΔH * L) / W

Given: ΔH = 2.5 inches (change in ride height) L = 44 inches (original length of the rear track bar) W = 116.1 inches (wheelbase of the Bronco)

ΔL = (2.5 * 44) / 116.1 ΔL = 110 / 116.1 ΔL ≈ 0.9479 inches

According to the calculation, you would need to increase the length of the rear track bar by approximately 0.9479 inches when raising the ride height of your Bronco by 2.5 inches.

Please note that this calculation provides an estimate, and it's always recommended to consult with suspension experts or refer to manufacturer guidelines for specific recommendations regarding track bar length adjustments. They can provide more precise measurements based on your specific vehicle and suspension setup.

Great,,, well this is frustrating, So I just measured my stock bar vs the new ICON adjustable bar.

Stock Ford Bar center to center (measured uninstalled on the bench) is 44-1/4"
Installed ICON Bar center to center Measures 44" ,,,, 1/4" less than the stock bar.

The ICON adjustable bar was installed same day as the ICON coilover lift (about a 2.5" lift in the rear)

You can see in the photos below the installed ICON bar is shorter eye to eye that the stock Ford Bar.... I don't know how much of this can be attributed to compression of the rubber bushings on the Track Bars, installed vs un-installed.

The tires and wheels appear(and measure) poking out more towards the driver side of the vehicle.. HMMM

Ford Bronco Asked Chat GTP for track bar advice 20230619_115227


Ford Bronco Asked Chat GTP for track bar advice 20230619_115246


Ford Bronco Asked Chat GTP for track bar advice 20230619_115311


Ford Bronco Asked Chat GTP for track bar advice 20230619_115351


Ford Bronco Asked Chat GTP for track bar advice 2023-06-19_12-09-27
 
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Great,,, well this is frustrating, So I just measured my stock bar vs the new ICON adjustable bar.

Stock Ford Bar center to center (measured uninstalled on the bench) is 44-1/4"
Installed ICON Bar center to center Measures 44" ,,,, 1/4" less than the stock bar.

The ICON adjustable bar was installed same day as the ICON coilover lift (about a 2.5" lift in the rear)

You can see in the photos below the installed ICON bar is shorter eye to eye that the stock Ford Bar.... I don't know how much of this can be attributed to compression of the rubber bushings on the Track Bars, installed vs un-installed.

The tires and wheels appear(and measure) poking out more towards the driver side of the vehicle.. HMMM

Ford Bronco {thread} {filename}


Ford Bronco {thread} {filename}


Ford Bronco {thread} {filename}


Ford Bronco {thread} {filename}


Ford Bronco {thread} {filename}

Wow. You might be within spec for being safe or not overly damaging stuff, but still cool you and Chat GTP caught it.

There shouldn't be much of any dynamic load on the bushing if your on a flat surface. Unless that drive shaft is actually stressed from the misalignment, but I would guess it's Ok.
(Caveat_ I don't know shit)
 
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Fascinating! The best part is that we may have accidentally caught someone else's misalignment just by talking about Chat GPT. What a time to be alive haha
 

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Just came across this thread. I do not understand how track bar length is related to wheel base???

Sure the wheel base affects dynamic response of suspension and lateral loads on rear axle, which are carried by track bar. However the track bar length sweeps an arc in a vertical plane through the rear axle axis. Changing lengths moves axle left or right based on track bar angle in that plane. Not seeing how this is related to wheel base. Track bar sweeps a large arc and angles are small. Cosine of small angles with large arc shifts rear axle by small amount for 2-3” lift.

stretching bronco front end to >1000 ft, keeping rear identical but lifting 20”, should result in a large displacement of rear axle towards driver’s side. Formula suggests no effective displacement due to super long wheel base. Makes no sense.

@dgorsett and @BigMeatsBronco I saw you guys commented on another post about track bar lengths. Any thoughts on why include wheel base?
 

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Nope. Track effects side to side axle movement relative to lift. Compression or droop. And according to my crude calculations, very little, with less than 3" of vertical lift, compression or droop. Wheelbase would have no effect to my mind.
 

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Neat that ai tried to answer this, too bad it's flat ass wrong. It doesn't take into account how close to horizontal the bar is and wheelbase is irrelevant. Maybe it means track width?
 

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Neat that ai tried to answer this, too bad it's flat ass wrong. It doesn't take into account how close to horizontal the bar is and wheelbase is irrelevant. Maybe it means track width?
Curious about this as well. Has anyone tried o plug in the 2dr wheel base dimension to see if any difference than 4dr math?
 

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there is an online race car builders guide for free that addresses this exact thing in super great detail over pages and pages of information. after reading all of it the summary was that the attachment points are VERY CRUCIAL to the suspensions ability to handle corners and keep the CoG in the correct location.

most average people have not read or researched any of this.

I've had several vehicles in the past with horizontal track bars or pan hard rods and all of them that were lifted had almost no difference in the placement of the rear axle. So most of these that folks are selling longer bars for a 2 inch lift or less are just a gimmick that is absolutely not necessary. If you were to lift the suspension Beyond 4 in, then yes you could probably use a track bar mount relocation. Making the bar longer is not the solution!!! as when it swings through the horizontal position it will actually move the axle further than if it was in the stock length.

the solution is keeping the rod horizontal (or very near horizontal) at your ride height.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/suspension-geometry

http://www.getstartedracing.com/panard-bars-and-handling/


https://m-roadkillcustoms-com.cdn.a...oms.com/how-to-properly-set-up-a-panhard-bar/
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