Kicker Key 200.4 Done Correctly

[JediMcMuffin]

@plugnplaykits : any interest in making this easier for us? pretty please?

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[AZCoyote]

Thank you for this!! Though I still think I need to run a dedicated power wire to the battery since I have the OG version of the harness. Turns out I saved my diagram, and the I've done my best to visualize your adjustments described above:

Very nice!!!

The Key 200 and 500 should both use dedicated fused power direct to the battery. And use the remote send from the 200 to tell the 500 when to turn on/off. Auto detect on the 500 was not good for me. Wired to the 200 is great.

 

[P_Baff]

@AZCoyote Are you running components or coaxials for your dash and kicks?

Shop keeps saying since both of mine are coax and not components I should be using the standard wiring diagram.
I’m going to insist on Bi-Amp based on what you told me.

 

[AZCoyote]

@AZCoyote Are you running components or coaxials for your dash and kicks?

Shop keeps saying since both of mine are coax and not components I should be using the standard wiring diagram.
I’m going to insist on Bi-Amp based on what you told me.

I have Alpine coax in the dash. Memphis midbass in the kick. No outboard crossovers, the coax has a bass cap but it doesn’t factor.

They clearly don’t understand how bi-amp works. Make sure you listen to a lot of reference material before. Then critical listen after. You will be able to tell. And don’t be afraid to retrain the DSP or turn off the Kivker EQ dip. Your ears know what you like.

Somehow they are not comprehending that there are TWO configurations possible in bi-amp mode.

1. Kick panel woofer and dash tweeter. This would be the component setup they are hung up on. Not doing this one.

2. kick panel woofer and dash speakers (aka coaxials). This is the jam

it’s on that pic I uploaded. Can’t be more clear than that. I think I uploaded some YT vids early in the thread. Maybe they are visual learners.

 

[P_Baff]

@AZCoyote

Thank you for this. I will update tomorrow when it’s done.
Greatly appreciate your help!

 

[Cordycord]

these just help separate the front wave from rear. Presses flush to the plastic trim piece. Not required but seems to help.

I did the bi-amp and the sound definitely improved. However I've got some issues....ask my wife.

--the Alpine dash tweets are very bright. They overpower the Memphis kicks and it's difficult to equalize them through the stock head unit.
--Related?--I added the waterproof "hat" for the back of the Memphis kicks, and they were a PITA to fit. I'm starting to think that they are part of the problem. They may be preventing the Memphis kicks from getting full excursion?
--I wanted to re-EQ the front four speakers via the Kicker microphone and tilt the microphone towards the front--instead of straight up--in order to have the amp de-emphasize the Alpines. I'm guessing because of Forscan changes, my woofer still makes sound when the fader is moved all the way to the front (only) speakers. And even when I disconnect the woofer, the Kicker will play the "sad" end tune, showing that the EQ wasn't updated.
--The Kicker 200.4 starts to cut out the front speakers after 20, even with no gain. NOT that I listen as that level, but I was just testing the system limits.
--Last, the fronts do sound good, and the Memphis coaxial 6.5's in back sound nice too. So nice that it's obvious that the stock woofer got left behind. I need to figure that out next...

I am my own worst enemy.

 

[AZCoyote]

--the Alpine dash tweets are very bright. They overpower the Memphis kicks and it's difficult to equalize them through the stock head unit.


--Related?--I added the waterproof "hat" for the back of the Memphis kicks, and they were a PITA to fit. I'm starting to think that they are part of the problem. They may be preventing the Memphis kicks from getting full excursion?

--I wanted to re-EQ the front four speakers via the Kicker microphone and tilt the microphone towards the front--instead of straight up--in order to have the amp de-emphasize the Alpines. I'm guessing because of Forscan changes, my woofer still makes sound when the fader is moved all the way to the front (only) speakers. And even when I disconnect the woofer, the Kicker will play the "sad" end tune, showing that the EQ wasn't updated.
--The Kicker 200.4 starts to cut out the front speakers after 20, even with no gain. NOT that I listen as that level, but I was just testing the system limits.
--Last, the fronts do sound good, and the Memphis coaxial 6.5's in back sound nice too. So nice that it's obvious that the stock woofer got left behind. I need to figure that out next...

I am my own worst enemy.

Ok. Do you have just tweeters in dash or do you mean the tweets on coaxials? Try turning off the dip switch for kicker EQ first. I believe it adds some highs and that may be your offending harshness. You may also want to DSP train with it off if that doesn’t remove enough highs. HU eqshould always be flat during DSP runs of course.

I would guess the hat probably does factor. The space behind the kick is not great but plugging gaps with sound deadening did pretty good for me. Not perfect but noticeable improvement. I’d likely leave those off if I were you.

I’d leave the mic straight up on the headrest since reflections are likely how it calculates speaker distance to set timing correction but it doesn’t hurt to experiment.

Regarding “woofer” and fader. I assume you mean subwoofer. Always pull the fuse on your sub amp before running DSP. Stock amp fuse is in the box under the hood. Aftermarket should be an inline fuse on the power lead to the battery. Fader forward is just to remove rear pods from the equation. They will ruin a dsp run.

Gains on my amp are set so that 25 is my max on head unit. It goes to 30 but 25-26 is theoretical point of distortion in the output stage of the HU. If your system cuts out at 20, that is not good. Apologies if I missed this in early posts… are you using the standard plug and play harness or did you modify it for bi-amp mode? All of the recommendations I’ve made in this thread depend on powering the front stage solely from the Kicker and using head unit power for the rear pods just as fill.

 

[AZCoyote]

Also, run your DSP with a cable attached to phone and Bluetooth off. You want uncompressed highest resolution source files. May help with sad sound failures.

https://www.kicker.com/test-tones

 

[P_Baff]

@AZCoyote

Your loops are here, correct?

 

[Cordycord]

Ok. Do you have just tweeters in dash or do you mean the tweets on coaxials? Try turning off the dip switch for kicker EQ first. I believe it adds some highs and that may be your offending harshness. You may also want to DSP train with it off if that doesn’t remove enough highs. HU eqshould always be flat during DSP runs of course.

I would guess the hat probably does factor. The space behind the kick is not great but plugging gaps with sound deadening did pretty good for me. Not perfect but noticeable improvement. I’d likely leave those off if I were you.

I’d leave the mic straight up on the headrest since reflections are likely how it calculates speaker distance to set timing correction but it doesn’t hurt to experiment.

Regarding “woofer” and fader. I assume you mean subwoofer. Always pull the fuse on your sub amp before running DSP. Stock amp fuse is in the box under the hood. Aftermarket should be an inline fuse on the power lead to the battery. Fader forward is just to remove rear pods from the equation. They will ruin a dsp run.

Gains on my amp are set so that 25 is my max on head unit. It goes to 30 but 25-26 is theoretical point of distortion in the output stage of the HU. If your system cuts out at 20, that is not good. Apologies if I missed this in early posts… are you using the standard plug and play harness or did you modify it for bi-amp mode? All of the recommendations I’ve made in this thread depend on powering the front stage solely from the Kicker and using head unit power for the rear pods just as fill.

I have the Alpine dash speakers that you recommended, which are coax:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C74WLC74?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1

You're saying that the Kicker EQ should be turned off for DSP. That means the dip switch on "Kicker EQ" is down:

Here's the harness I bought off Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4VBMPTK?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_5

The speakers are set up for bi-amp mode, as I do believe you that this is the best method for getting the best sound, without breaking the bank.

I will find and remove the subwoofer fuse--why didn't I think of that?! It's soooo much easier than pulling out all the plastic siding to unplug that sucker!

I'm going to (at minimum) cut the back out of the kick hat, just so the speakers can breathe.

Last, I'm adding links and pictures so hopefully this will help other people. I'm not trying to dive-bomb this thread! Thanks again AZCoyote.

 

[AZCoyote]

@AZCoyote

Your loops are here, correct?

CORRECTION. Page 7 post 99.

that looks like the correct place. Mine was a little hacky but you will get the idea.

I have the Alpine dash speakers that you recommended, which are coax:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C74WLC74?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1

You're saying that the Kicker EQ should be turned off for DSP. That means the dip switch on "Kicker EQ" is down:

Here's the harness I bought off Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4VBMPTK?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_5

The speakers are set up for bi-amp mode, as I do believe you that this is the best method for getting the best sound, without breaking the bank.

I will find and remove the subwoofer fuse--why didn't I think of that?! It's soooo much easier than pulling out all the plastic siding to unplug that sucker!

I'm going to (at minimum) cut the back out of the kick hat, just so the speakers can breathe.

Last, I'm adding links and pictures so hopefully this will help other people. I'm not trying to dive-bomb this thread! Thanks again AZCoyote.

kicker EQ doesn’t have to be turned off. Totally preferential. It adds highs and lows. Classic smiley face on a graphic EQ if you remember those. Turning off may sound good to you and remove harshness in highs. Just an option. Your ears decide though.

That harness looks more DIY than PNP. As long as your rears pass around the amp and use head unit power, the rest should fall in place.

Bomb away! We are all here to help and I love a good collaboration.

 

[P_Baff]

Holy Santa Clause Sh!t! It sounds amazing in Bi-Amp!
This IS DEFINITELY THE WAY!!

Thank you @AZCoyote!!

 

[AZCoyote]

Holy Santa Clause Sh!t! It sounds amazing in Bi-Amp!
This IS DEFINITELY THE WAY!!

Thank you @AZCoyote!!

you are very welcome! I was blown away too. Glad you are getting the best out of it. Time for some commutes with it cranked!

 

[Cordycord]

Round two with DSP. All dip switches are down, except for the 60Hz crossover. I may add compression as I'm still getting clipping at volume 19. Again, 15 is pretty much my highest listening volume but I want to test so it all is working properly.

The systems sounds MUCH better now. The tweeters are balanced, not bright. I also have some 6.5" coaxial speakers in bigger back pods, and moved the fader so they're noticeable but not overpowering. I like.

I read online that lower clipping levels can be normal on the Bronco head unit, and that a Line Output Converter (LOC) between the head unit and the Key 200.4 can help. Maybe later.

My next steps are to figure out the subwoofer and to cut a hole in the protectors behind the Memphis kick speakers so they can move freely.

Pictures for reference:

 

[AZCoyote]

Round two with DSP. All dip switches are down, except for the 60Hz crossover. I may add compression as I'm still getting clipping at volume 19. Again, 15 is pretty much my highest listening volume but I want to test so it all is working properly.

except for bi-amp and time delay right?

the timing correction is great. HU has to have its turned off of course.

sounds like you just need to play with the gains a little bit

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