7MT owners - how often do you downshift to 1st?

[MilesTeg]

I've driven manuals for a long time, and have always stuck to the general guideline of shifting into 1st only in rare situations (like turning up a steep hill). This has served me pretty darn well over a dozen or so different vehicles, but in my Bronco I have found I am lugging or at least on the verge of lugging if I try to accelerate in 2nd after, for example, turning at an intersection. I'm a bit surprised due to how low the gearing is, but my Badlands is still pretty heavy with all the bash plates and whatnot.

I've never had a turbo manual before, and I am extra cautious to not lug the turbo engine. However, I'm not sure shifting into 1st frequently is great either. It's synchronized, but I've also read that sometimes a 1st gear synchro is built less robustly than others.

So, it's a bit of a quandry. What do you guys do?

Also, when I am wheeling I will shift from crawl to 1st while on the move sometimes. Is that a bad idea with this transmission?

It never feels like I am stressing the synchro in either of these situations, but it may still be something I shouldn't do.

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[kodiakisland]

I down shift when I need to, same as up shift. I'm not concerned with what gear I'm in. just do what the vehicle tells you to do and don't over think it.

I do C-1 or C-2 shifts when needed. Again, don't over think it.

 

[CalvinT]

By first I assume you mean first and not crawl. I never use crawl unless I'm starting on a very steep hill. I normally use first every time I start off. Ford located crawl where it is for a reason. It's not for normal driving.

Years ago many four speed truck transmissions had a very low first gear called a granny gear. It was for starting with a heavy load or on a steep hill. For normal driving you'd normally started off in second. Second gear in those transmissions had roughly the same ratio as first gear in a normal three speed transmission for a passenger car.

For example the GM SM465 transmission that came in 1978 Chevrolet 1/2, 3/4, and one ton pickups had the following ratios.
First gear 6.56:1
Second gear 3.58:1
Third 1.70:1
Fourth 1.00:1

The Muncie three speed that came in 1/2 and 3/4 ton pickups and passenger cars had the following ratios for the 350 engine. Other engines had different ratios but you get the idea.
First gear 2.85:1
Second gear 1.68:1
Third gear 1.00:1

The Bronco crawler gear is the same as the old granny gear. You don't use it for normal driving. I've included a pdf with the Bronco gear ratios.

Too many people overthink driving a manual transmission. Learn to listen to your engine instead of relying on the tach. If you do watch the tach, just downshift around 2,000 RPM. I normally keep mine between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM.

 

[SHANUT]

On my older manual transmission vehicles I live at around 1500 RPMs because it doesn’t stress the engine by lugging it or needlessly over revving at that point. On the bronco it seems like it’s happier around 2500 RPMs because it’s pretty gutless below 2000. Like others have said, do what the engine tells you to do.

 

[Brian_B]

A lot depends on your tire size and gear ratio too. Broncos are all over the map with that, and that will really affect your shifting needs. When I had 35s my shifting was a lot different than my 38s today.

The nature of the i4 does make shifting a little bit different than a standard naturally aspirated engine - not all of it is due to the turbo though. This engine wants high rpms, and your torque really suffers under 2k, There is a really steep torque ramp up from idle to 2k and it really hits it's stride at 2.5-3.5k. Peak torque is around 3.5k, and peak hp is around 5.5k. A lot of larger engines, or older naturally aspirated ones, you'd usually shift before 2k RPM for fuel economy and easy shifting, but this engine lugs at those lower RPMs.

The fact that almost every dyno run I see for the 2.3 starts out at 2k, they aren't even testing anything lower, I think makes the curve look a lot flatter than it really is (and it's pretty peaky even with that data omitted)

(Stolen from Mishimoto Intercooler page - it's the best stock dyno chart I could find)

On my Bronco now, with 4.46 and 38's, if I'm stopped on an incline at all I start out in C. I ~could~ make it in 1, but with my tire size and ratio it means I'm really leaning on the clutch and I don't see a reason to do that when I have a granny gear available. Starting out from a stop though you don't have the benefit of putting the engine in it's happy spot, unless you want to do a launch, and I don't really want to do that to my clutch at every stop light (and even with 38s, I can still chirp the tires that way). I don't often have to downshift to 1 on road though, unless it's stop and go traffic or something, but I'm also not afraid to run the engine up to 5k rpm before I shift into 2.

So to answer your question about shifting from C to 1 - I treat C just like any other gear, and shift on the move all the time. I also don't think there's any issue downshifting to 1 for the transmission if you need to. I've heard the 2025's brought back rev matching - that will drastically reduce the stress on your synchros, but even without it, unless you are jamming the shifter faster than it naturally wants to fall, or your clutch is starting to go out, I don't think you'll hurt anything by going through any of the gears.

If I'm offroad, I tend to sit in 4Lo most of the time (mainly because I'm lazy tbh, and I'm not going that fast anyway) it's rare that I'm higher than 2 unless it's just cruising down a nice smooth fire road or something, so downshifting to 1 and C is all over the place off road and very common.

Regarding the turbo specifically and the 7mt - all the normal Manual transmission experience applies, except for one tip I was given. When you are going to cruise, don't upshift if you are still sitting in boost - all you will do is lug the engine more. Obviously, this does not apply while accelerating up to cruising speed.

Ideally, you'd like to be at cruising speed with no boost at all. That isn't always practical (stiff headwind, long uphill, etc), but (a good example) if you are going down the freeway at 70 in 5th with 3psi of boost, you ~can~ upshift to 6, but it isn't going to do you any good and will just cost you more in fuel.

 

[zyglyrox]

I will downshift to 1st under 8mph or so.. I find 2nd is too lumpy. I use C as well, especially in low speed movements.

 

[Bronco Toad]

Rarely to a downshift to 1st on a roll, but if it needs it 1st it is.

 

[crzyhawk]

Too many people overthink driving a manual transmission. Learn to listen to your engine instead of relying on the tach. If you do watch the tach, just downshift around 2,000 RPM. I normally keep mine between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM.

This part cannot be stated enough. Don't overthink it. She'll tell you when she's happy or unhappy. Listen, and do what it asks you to do.

 

[Q1svt]

Bronco I have found I am lugging or at least on the verge of lugging if I try to accelerate in 2nd after, for example, turning at an intersection.

… need more RPM. As others stated either of the 2.3l like rpm. I am liking mine at the 3-4,000 1 - 2 and a little less 2 -3. Need enough rpm before shifting and the time it takes that you to still have enough for the next gear…
like an old VW bug in first she liked RPMs

The MT88 is a very wide gearing transmission, (truck like) and @CalvinT is spot on…

I will down shift to first without concern… if you are not grinding (fully depressing clutch) synchros are good

I do use C on the street, SoCal stop and go traffic. Let the clutch out and let her walk herself.

Got a 25 BL sas 35”

 

[EvilJim1971]

I generally let the Bronco tell me.
I try to not be under 2k RPM in any gear.
If I drop to 2k, I downshift.

 

[Blackcat]

I really only use 1st from a dead stop. Usually 2nd is good to get the ball rolling for me.

 

[crenca]

I've driven manuals for a long time, and have always stuck to the general guideline of shifting into 1st only in rare situations (like turning up a steep hill). This has served me pretty darn well over a dozen or so different vehicles, but in my Bronco I have found I am lugging or at least on the verge of lugging if I try to accelerate in 2nd after, for example, turning at an intersection.....

However, I'm not sure shifting into 1st frequently is great either. It's synchronized, but I've also read that sometimes a 1st gear synchro is built less robustly than others....

Also, when I am wheeling I will shift from crawl to 1st while on the move sometimes. Is that a bad idea with this transmission? it never feels like I am stressing the synchro in either of these situations, but it may still be something I shouldn't do.

Yes, with this vehicle (weight, turbo lag, and gear spacing) you can't pull away from a slow roll in 2nd as easily, so you do have to drop into first more often. I double clutch when I can to help the syncro, but not always possible

Use C when it helps. I use it on the road on steep hills (daily almost in my inclined driveway), slow idling cruise in stop and go, etc.

If your worried about syncro longevity or are still getting an occasional grind (as I do when rapid shifting from C-1 1-2, downshifting into 1 or C) just double clutch whenever possible, otherwise let the syncro's do their job and worry about more important matters

Ideally, you'd like to be at cruising speed with no boost at all. That isn't always practical (stiff headwind, long uphill, etc), but (a good example) if you are going down the freeway at 70 in 5th with 3psi of boost, you ~can~ upshift to 6, but it isn't going to do you any good and will just cost you more in fuel.

In theory the lower rpm's will lead to overall longer part longevity...unless the increased cylinder pressures from the boost cancel it out...who knows (and who would bother to actually measure in a valid way?).

In my typical use case in my area (80+ cruise on the higway, almost always a cross/head wind, constant up and down hills) I would be in 5th, even 4th just about all the time if I wanted zero boost on the interstate, so I downshift only when the boost is up around 5 or 6 psi

 

[kodiakisland]

I prefer to operate in an RPM range that keeps me out of boost. Not only for better gas mileage, but figure a few hundred rpms wears the engine less than constant boost.

 

[indio22]

I prefer to operate in an RPM range that keeps me out of boost. Not only for better gas mileage, but figure a few hundred rpms wears the engine less than constant boost.

I typically have the turbo boost gauge showing on the dash display. It helps indicate when the rpm is too low for a given throttle setting, when it shows the boost go up to try and compensate.

 

[dejones64]

I've never used Crawl. 1st starting out, 2nd at 15mph. 1st if I ever get below 10mph.

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