23 Non-Sas BB Adding Rear Locker

[Ducati1098]

@Ducati1098 or @flip. Do either of you have axles in stock to see if there really is a difference?

I’m not sure what the difference is. We don’t have any in stock to check.

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[Brian_B]

I had the opportunity to pick up a takeoff 4.46 Locker rear end, so I was able to pull shafts from both the Standard and Locker rear ends and set them side by side.

It appears the pumpkin sits a bit to the left on the Locker version compared to the Standard.

Here are the shaft measurements - don't take these to the bank, this is me eyeballing with a tape measure.

Standard
Left - 33 1/4" stamped 92
Right - 37 3/16" stamped 97

Locker
Left - 32 3/8" stamped 22
Right - 38 1/8" stamped 21

Photos - parallax makes the tape not quite look like what I eyeballed it at - again, I wouldn't take it to the bank.

Left shafts - tape on Standard

Left shafts, tape on Locker

Right shaft standard

Right shaft Locker

Pic showing the stamp on the hub, this is Standard Left

 

[Snacktime]

@Brian_B that's depressing, looks like we will have to sort through which aftermarket carriers are compatible with what axles. This might make carrier replacements more difficult down the line.

 

[Mquerin]

I was watching the ARB air locker install and did some digging and it looks like they are meant for non-sas axles ... wouldn't it stand to reason then that if you replace the non-lock with a locker that you can then use the same shafts? The shaft length difference seems to coincide with the fact that the pumpkin is an inch to the left...

Right?

 

[Brian_B]

I was watching the ARB air locker install and did some digging and it looks like they are meant for non-sas axles ... wouldn't it stand to reason then that if you replace the non-lock with a locker that you can then use the same shafts? The shaft length difference seems to coincide with the fact that the pumpkin is an inch to the left...

Right?

I’m not certain to be honest

 

[climb2descend]

The ARB Bronco guide says if you put the ARB into a Sasquatch/Badlands etc locked bronco u have to use the non Sasquatch shafts. So no I don't think a factory locked axle would work with non locker shafts.

Also I don't think it's true that the pumpkin is what is offset, it's the carrier crosspin. On non locker carriers the cross pin is centered, on elocker carriers the crosspin is offset.

 

[Brian_B]

Also I don't think it's true that the pumpkin is what is offset, it's the carrier crosspin. On non locker carriers the cross pin is centered, on elocker carriers the crosspin is offset.

I think you are probably right about this

 

[AJITO]

So you have two choices:

• Electronic locker
• Air locker

Of those two, I would recommend an air locker. It is more reliable, more robust, and easier to troubleshoot than an electronic locker (a leak in an air line is real easy to track down compared to weird electrical gremlins.). Because an air locker requires an air compressor... you'll also have a means to air up your tires after off-roading.

Under normal circumstances, adding a rear locker simply would require to you open the differential, take out the carrier assembly, swap the ring gear over to the new air-locking carrier assembly, reinstall the carrier... and run air lines from the compressor to the differential.

However, on the Bronco with the open-differential... the ring gear is welded to the carrier assembly. Which means you basically have to rebuild the entire differential. Since you are rebuilding the differential, it also brings up questions regarding rehearing and potentially adding a front locker as well. So it ultimately depends how much money you want to throw at this thing.

Hey @RagnarKon I have a Dana 60 air locker in mine, but the install shop did not wire anything like a pigtail at the end of the connector. I am also getting a CEL when switching to "Off-Road" GOAT mode that indicates failure to communicate with the rear diff (obviously). Do you or anyone else know how to remedy this? I saw the install for the NON-ELD Dana 60 for Bronco that mentions a pigtail, but neither the shop or the retailer that I bought it from know what this is or how to bypass it. I do have a Dana 44 Ultimate 5.38 e locker in the front FYI. Also, when I restart the vehicle, the CEL goes away until I try to switch back to a mode that engages the rear diff. Any help would be awesome!

Thanks,

-AJ

 

[Brian_B]

Hey @RagnarKon I have a Dana 60 air locker in mine, but the install shop did not wire anything like a pigtail at the end of the connector. I am also getting a CEL when switching to "Off-Road" GOAT mode that indicates failure to communicate with the rear diff (obviously). Do you or anyone else know how to remedy this? I saw the install for the NON-ELD Dana 60 for Bronco that mentions a pigtail, but neither the shop or the retailer that I bought it from know what this is or how to bypass it. I do have a Dana 44 Ultimate 5.38 e locker in the front FYI. Also, when I restart the vehicle, the CEL goes away until I try to switch back to a mode that engages the rear diff. Any help would be awesome!

Thanks,

-AJ

This is a guess, mind you -- I'd be interested in what Ragnarkon and others think still:

But there is no physical feedback on the ELD, so the only way it would know that the locker engaged would be by looking at current going through the ELD coil - which should be about 5A, give or take, on a functional coil.

An air locker coil will be much, much less than that - probably in the mA range, since it's just a solenoid for an air valve.

If you wire a 2.5 Ohm** resistor (must be rated for at least 30W High Power, they exist) either:
* ~in parallel~ with the air locker coil, if they used the factory harness output to power the coil (i.e. your standard Hero switch still actuates the air locker)
--or--
* just directly on the factory ELD harness output, since there wouldn't be anything else wired to it (assuming your air locker goes from an aftermarket or upfitter switch)

- that would trick the onboard computer to thinking the ELD was still in the circuit and being powered, while still actuating the air locker coil.

** Again, this is an educated guess. I don't know the actual amp value the computer is looking for, or if the computer is even looking at amps. possible you could use a higher ohm resistor - 5 ohm or more, with a much lower current draw that wouldn't get nearly as hot as this 2.5 Ohm would.

 

[AJITO]

This is a guess, mind you -- I'd be interested in what Ragnarkon and others think still:

But there is no physical feedback on the ELD, so the only way it would know that the locker engaged would be by looking at current going through the ELD coil - which should be about 5A, give or take, on a functional coil.

An air locker coil will be much, much less than that - probably in the mA range, since it's just a solenoid for an air valve.

If you wire a 2.5 Ohm** resistor (must be rated for at least 30W High Power, they exist) either:
* ~in parallel~ with the air locker coil, if they used the factory harness output to power the coil (i.e. your standard Hero switch still actuates the air locker)
--or--
* just directly on the factory ELD harness output, since there wouldn't be anything else wired to it (assuming your air locker goes from an aftermarket or upfitter switch)

- that would trick the onboard computer to thinking the ELD was still in the circuit and being powered, while still actuating the air locker coil.

** Again, this is an educated guess. I don't know the actual amp value the computer is looking for, or if the computer is even looking at amps. possible you could use a higher ohm resistor - 5 ohm or more, with a much lower current draw that wouldn't get nearly as hot as this 2.5 Ohm would.

So I did hear back from the Dana rep Ken Farley Jr. who was nice enough to provide the solution...
And once you hear it, you will feel like an idiot (at least I did).
All you have to do is take the 2 wires from the solenoid and splice them into the already existing e locker harness plug that was plugged into the old M210/220 e locker (2022 Wildtrak).

I have not yet completed this, but it seems the resolution was super simple.

Why then have I not been able to find anything on this?
Either way, this completely changes the way I feel about the e locker being an air locker now.
Thank you Ken Farley Jr.
You have officially won MVP for the week lol!

 

[Brian_B]

So I did hear back from the Dana rep Ken Farley Jr. who was nice enough to provide the solution...
And once you hear it, you will feel like an idiot (at least I did).
All you have to do is take the 2 wires from the solenoid and splice them into the already existing e locker harness plug that was plugged into the old M210/220 e locker (2022 Wildtrak).

I have not yet completed this, but it seems the resolution was super simple.

Why then have I not been able to find anything on this?
Either way, this completely changes the way I feel about the e locker being an air locker now.
Thank you Ken Farley Jr.
You have officially won MVP for the week lol!

Hmm i kinda assumed you had already done that and were still getting an error. I guess thats what I get for guessing

interesting Dana replied regarding an air locker too… I didn’t know they made one.

 

[White Zombie]

Well, I came across this looking for ideas on the same thing. I'm guessing that my 22 base 2d 7MT does NOT have the M220 axle. I tried a VIN decoder and no luck there telling me anything that I already didn't know (4.46 ratio). The M220 comes from a SAS model bronco? or look at getting one from Ford Performance? The 4.70 ratio would probably be better if the plan would be to go to 37s. Plus, probably involves some FORSCAN programming work?

thanks for any help figuring that out

 

[Brian_B]

Well, I came across this looking for ideas on the same thing. I'm guessing that my 22 base 2d 7MT does NOT have the M220 axle. I tried a VIN decoder and no luck there telling me anything that I already didn't know (4.46 ratio). The M220 comes from a SAS model bronco? or look at getting one from Ford Performance? The 4.70 ratio would probably be better if the plan would be to go to 37s. Plus, probably involves some FORSCAN programming work?

thanks for any help figuring that out

All Broncos have an m220 in the rear except the Raptors, which bump up to a Dana 50.

There are some differences between the ELD and non-ELD m220s though that gives folks headaches. The non-ELD 4.46, for some ungodly reason, Ford welds the ring gear to the carrier. So if you ever want to regear or add a locker, you are probably better off getting a whole rear end.

If you get an air locker, that replaces the carrier anyway. And the air locker requires the non-ELD axle shafts, which are offset a bit differently than the ELD shafts.

Or if you go with the Entire Rear End option - its very easy to swap out, as opposed to pulling the carrier and gutting the diff, which takes a lot more time.

So its not all doom and gloom

 

[White Zombie]

Hahaha. Yeah I was looking at Ford Performance at the whole assemblies. The "EAZY" route is definitely not a cheap route, thats for sure, $6.7k for the front and rear assemblies, new front shafts, required new front driveshaft and wiring for E-Lockers. However, its easier pulling whole axles and putting in whole new ones. Its going to be a bit before I worry about that. Just have to decide if 4.88s or 5.13s for 37s (maybe 38s). Hahaha

All Broncos have an m220 in the rear except the Raptors, which bump up to a Dana 50.

There are some differences between the ELD and non-ELD m220s though that gives folks headaches. The non-ELD 4.46, for some ungodly reason, Ford welds the ring gear to the carrier. So if you ever want to regear or add a locker, you are probably better off getting a whole rear end.

If you get an air locker, that replaces the carrier anyway. And the air locker requires the non-ELD axle shafts, which are offset a bit differently than the ELD shafts.

Or if you go with the Entire Rear End option - its very easy to swap out, as opposed to pulling the carrier and gutting the diff, which takes a lot more time.

So its not all doom and gloom

 

[Brian_B]

Hahaha. Yeah I was looking at Ford Performance at the whole assemblies. The "EAZY" route is definitely not a cheap route, thats for sure, $6.7k for the front and rear assemblies, new front shafts, required new front driveshaft and wiring for E-Lockers. However, its easier pulling whole axles and putting in whole new ones. Its going to be a bit before I worry about that. Just have to decide if 4.88s or 5.13s for 37s (maybe 38s). Hahaha

I can say - the 4.46 can run 37s. I've been running 38s on 4.46 for a year. Also upgrading the front end is optional, I'm still running the m190 front end as well.

That isn't to say it's optimal. But definitely possible. Other than starting from a stop, really isn't bad at all. It will still chirp the tires if you want it to.

Just saying it doesn't necessarily have to be a $7k upgrade if you don't want it to be. That said, I do have a 5.38 regear kit and m210 front end sitting in my garage that I've been working on.

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