Save on Fuel (and get more power) - How to Properly Blend with Ethanol

[swamp2]

i see that some of the inputs require guessing about what's actually in your current tank.

from observations of my current vehicles, the fuel gauges are non-linear especially below the half mark (probably due to the odd tank geometries)

how does your app calculation deal with that issue?

Any error in inputs will lead to a inaccuracies in outputs, in volumes, octanes and EtOH content. That said,

1. Most modern gauges (+computers with lookup tables) account for tank shape with a correction factor so that both level and distance to empty are more accurate. Our Broncos do this.
2. My experience in my Bronco shows I am able to obtain HIGHLY accurate resulting EtOH numbers, verified with an inline OEM gauge, typically within 1 percentage point, regardless of how full I am at fill up.
3. Not asked, but related: EtOH fuel labeling and regulations suck. You'll definitely be exposed to much greater errors if you live where E85 has a winter blend (for easier starting). Believe it or not it's perfectly legal to sell something labeled E85 that has 51% EtOH. You have to determine what's actually in your fuels (%EtOH not octane), which can be done by inquiry or very simple testing.

You know the adage, "Garbage in, garbage out".

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[swamp2]

Ethanol contains roughly 30–33% less energy per unit volume than gasoline, meaning it is less potent as a fuel, although it has a higher octane rating., it's less combustible!

I very much understand the seeming contradiction between EtOH having a lower energy content per volume than gasoline with the fact that it truly makes more hp. This is a completely established fact in Automobile Engineering and across the entire tuning world. Sorry, not debatable here...

Added EtOH does so through many effects most of which were in my OP.

1. Your ECU makes up for a lot of the lower energy content by simply burning more of the ethanol blend (it achieves a stoichiometric burn). mpg IS reduced.
2. EtOH cools your intake charge more and a fundamental parameter in the thermodynamics of power output is the temperature ratio after vs. before combustion.
3. Pretty well all modern engines adjust timing based on knock sensing and ethanol, due to it having a very high octane, resists knock way better than gasoline. This is a very significant factor in the additional power made.
4. Custom tunes can safely run significantly higher turbo boost pressures due to the above effects. Many factory tunes probably make some minor adjustments based on fuel.

 

[MWM0604]

Ma

Patently false. Ethanol increases power period. Time for you to do some actual research.

Usually the guy saying "do your research" has never done his own research. Ethanol is highly corrosive to an engine. Has lower energy density(which causes decreased horsepower) will cause plastic and rubber components in the fuel system to break down rapidly, and produces more carbon deposits in the engine. On top of that the more ethanol the less additives in the fuel. I only use top tier fuel. But hey use your high ethanol gas, I hear walnut planting an engine is fun.

 

[Hemisfear]

I very much understand the seeming contradiction between EtOH having a lower energy content per volume than gasoline with the fact that it truly makes more hp. This is a completely established fact in Automobile Engineering and across the entire tuning world. Sorry, not debatable here...

Added EtOH does so through many effects most of which were in my OP.

1. Your ECU makes up for a lot of the lower energy content by simply burning more of the ethanol blend (it achieves a stoichiometric burn). mpg IS reduced.
2. EtOH cools your intake charge more and a fundamental parameter in the thermodynamics of power output is the temperature ratio after vs. before combustion.
3. Pretty well all modern engines adjust timing based on knock sensing and ethanol, due to it having a very high octane, resists knock way better than gasoline. This is a very significant factor in the additional power made.
4. Custom tunes can safely run significantly higher turbo boost pressures due to the above effects. Many factory tunes probably make some minor adjustments based on fuel.

Sorry, what I stated is absolutely accurate!, but you do you because no one else can do you like you do you! lol

 

[swamp2]

Ma

Usually the guy saying "do your research" has never done his own research. Ethanol is highly corrosive to an engine. Has lower energy density(which causes decreased horsepower) will cause plastic and rubber components in the fuel system to break down rapidly, and produces more carbon deposits in the engine. On top of that the more ethanol the less additives in the fuel. I only use top tier fuel. But hey use your high ethanol gas, I hear walnut planting an engine is fun.

Again, corrosive, lower power and degradation of rubber and plastic are all patently false claims. Period.

Hauling fuel does not in any way make you a fuel expert.

If you can post any REAL scientific or engineering studies showing any of this we will start to listen. If you want to refer to anecdotes, 30 year old data or internet forums, that won't cut it.

 

[swamp2]

Sorry, what I stated is absolutely accurate!, but you do you because no one else can do you like you do you! lol

As I said just above, post up any peer reviewed scientific evidence of your claims or just stop.

 

[MWM0604]

Again, corrosive, lower power and degradation of rubber and plastic are all patently false claims. Period.

Hauling fuel does not in any way make you a fuel expert.

If you can post any REAL scientific or engineering studies showing any of this we will start to listen. If you want to refer to anecdotes, 30 year old data or internet forums, that won't cut it.

 

[swamp2]

Where have we come to where a polite and honest request, to have a debate based on sound, scientific evidence, results in sarcasm and laughter.

Oh yeah, I know where we are, the world of "alternative facts"...

 

[MWM0604]

Where have we come to where a polite and honest request, to have a debate based on sound, scientific evidence, results in sarcasm and laughter.

Oh yeah, I know where we are, the world of "alternative facts"...

Maybe if you show me scientific proof that all the science was wrong and my 20 years of experience is wrong I'll listen. You are the one who can't handle someone speaking up and telling others that maybe they should do their research and not follow you blindly. Can't wait to see all the threads in a few years from the people listening to your advice complaining that Ford makes horrible engines cuz their engines are destroyed. not going to respond to your temper tantrums anymore.

 

[Ducati1098]

Ethanol is highly corrosive to an engine. Has lower energy density(which causes decreased horsepower) will cause plastic and rubber components in the fuel system to break down rapidly, and produces more carbon deposits in the engine. But hey use your high ethanol gas, I hear walnut planting an engine is fun.

LOL these have got to be some of the most uninformed statements I think I’ve ever read on this forum, well done!

1. Ethanol is mildly corrosive and only under specific conditions, primarily due to its ability to attract and hold water, which can lead to issues if the fuel sits for long periods.

2. Lower energy density does not equal decreased horsepower. Just because you need more fuel volume for the same energy, doesn’t negate the fact that ethanol’s higher octane allows for more aggressive timing/boost which increases horsepower.

3. Modern cars use ethanol compatible materials for fuel lines, seals, injectors, tanks, etc. It’s not going to harm and plastic and rubber components in the fuel system. This isn’t the 1970’s.

4. Higher ethanol content produces less carbon deposits in the engine in most cases. Ethanol burns very cleanly (more oxygen in the fuel = more complete combustion) not to mention higher ethanol can even act as a solvent to help clean minor buildup.

 

[swamp2]

Maybe if you show me scientific proof that all the science was wrong and my 20 years of experience is wrong I'll listen. You are the one who can't handle someone speaking up and telling others that maybe they should do their research and not follow you blindly. Can't wait to see all the threads in a few years from the people listening to your advice complaining that Ford makes horrible engines cuz their engines are destroyed. not going to respond to your temper tantrums anymore.

You do realize Ford and many other manufacturers make Flex Fuel vehicles that run on E85 for life?

And you realize they use the same exact components exposed to fuel as the gasoline versions?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm not making any extraordinary claims, you are.

Honestly, post a shred of and scientific evidence for any of your claims or just stop ruining the thread.

Also, if you can explain, in any reasonable way, how your experience hauling fuel, gives you any directly related knowledge/expertise, we are listening.

 

[MWILD]

I’m currently running an E30 blend in my 2.3L Bronco with a custom tune, and the performance is amazing. My experience with ethanol across both engine platforms has been consistently impressive:

• 2.7L Bronco (Stock Tune): Even on the factory map, switching to E30 shaved 0.2 seconds off my 0–60 mph time (verified via Dragy).
• 2.7L Bronco (Custom Tune): I eventually moved to a full E85 setup, logging nearly 20,000 miles with zero issues and fantastic power delivery and zero mods made to the fuel system.

I believe @Ducati1098 might have even more mileage on his E85 tune than I do at this point—it’s definitely a proven path for these engines.

 

[Ducati1098]

I’m currently running an E30 blend in my 2.3L Bronco with a custom tune, and the performance is amazing. My experience with ethanol across both engine platforms has been consistently impressive:

• 2.7L Bronco (Stock Tune): Even on the factory map, switching to E30 shaved 0.2 seconds off my 0–60 mph time (verified via Dragy).
• 2.7L Bronco (Custom Tune): I eventually moved to a full E85 setup, logging nearly 20,000 miles with zero issues and fantastic power delivery and zero mods made to the fuel system.

I believe @Ducati1098 might have even more mileage on his E85 tune than I do at this point—it’s definitely a proven path for these engines.

Yep. I've got probably 30K miles on my Bronco running mostly pump E85 (with a custom tune) for the past ~2 years, daily driven. Runs better than ever.

 

[swamp2]

Yep. I've got probably 30K miles on my Bronco running mostly pump E85 (with a custom tune) for the past ~2 years, daily driven. Runs better than ever.

And this is from a technically astute Ford Technician (his job).

 

[userdude]

You do realize Ford and many other manufacturers make Flex Fuel vehicles that run on E85 for life?

And you realize they use the same exact components exposed to fuel as the gasoline versions?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm not making any extraordinary claims, you are.

Honestly, post a shred of and scientific evidence for any of your claims or just stop ruining the thread.

Also, if you can explain, in any reasonable way, how your experience hauling fuel, gives you any directly related knowledge/expertise, we are listening.

Hey MAN, I've got my Junior Badger (future Wolverine!) online badge from the Department of Sophomoric Statistics and lemme tell YOU I know what I'm talking about!! If I didn't have to type so much I'd really prove you WRONG!!! Man, breaking a sweat here. Gonna go take a nap.

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