Affordable basic transportation models for 4x4 vehicles

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

Hey now, Subaru has paid good money to keep up that reliability myth. Now if they'd ever be bold enough to offer a modern 2-door BRAT or ballsy enough to bring over the WRX Sportwagon we can talk numbers!

Isn’t it funny how Americans claim to hate station wagons, yet all Americans essentially drive stationwagons? err….. Crossover SUVs Then only do stationwagon stuff.

a WRX Sportwagon would be awesome! Too bad no one would buy it. Shame.

As for stripped down and simple 4x4 trucks, Ford Brazil has a very small and capable UTE think called the Bowler or something. Thing is really nice. Maybe a foot shorter than the 2 Dr Bronco and thin for serious trails.

Saw one and. Few other gems recently on vacation in South ocean. I’d take a Hilux as a small off-road pickup too in a heartbeat.

The rest of the world have it good, but you’ll die in a wreck much faster, but they tend to not drive as fast and have far less HP.

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[DriveAllNight]

 

[rdg04578]

Hey now, Subaru has paid good money to keep up that reliability myth. Now if they'd ever be bold enough to offer a modern 2-door BRAT or ballsy enough to bring over the WRX Sportwagon we can talk numbers!

A silver Subaru is still the "Official Maine State Car"-- everyone has owned at least 1. As for reliability myth-- anything that can survive on Northern Maine roads is a legend in itself. Pavement is a luxury and our smoothest roads are in the winter when there is snow and ice on them-- snow and Ice= fresh pavement in Maine

 

[Lowcountry Bronco]

Isn’t it funny how Americans claim to hate station wagons, yet all Americans essentially drive stationwagons? err….. Crossover SUVs Then only do stationwagon stuff.

a WRX Sportwagon would be awesome! Too bad no one would buy it. Shame.

As for stripped down and simple 4x4 trucks, Ford Brazil has a very small and capable UTE think called the Bowler or something. Thing is really nice. Maybe a foot shorter than the 2 Dr Bronco and thin for serious trails.

Saw one and. Few other gems recently on vacation in South ocean. I’d take a Hilux as a small off-road pickup too in a heartbeat.

The rest of the world have it good, but you’ll die in a wreck much faster, but they tend to not drive as fast and have far less HP.

Yep, the Troller was the Brazilian Bronco but they stopped building them in '21 ... the Bowler is the Land Rover Defender based craziness ...

https://www.bowlermotors.com/bowler-cars/bowler-bulldog/

Basic yes but definitely not affordable!

 

[raptorusmaximus]

$$$$$$. There's a long list of economics involved with cars. If loans are smaller banks would lose a good potion of their interest income......Parts manufacturers would sell less and.... A more complex vehicle insures it has to be repaired at a dealer. WHERE THE REAL MONEY IS MADE.

 

[Lowcountry Bronco]

A silver Subaru is still the "Official Maine State Car"-- everyone has owned at least 1. As for reliability myth-- anything that can survive on Northern Maine roads is a legend in itself. Pavement is a luxury and our smoothest roads are in the winter when there is snow and ice on them-- snow and Ice= fresh pavement in Maine

I lived up in Rhode Island for awhile and our primary car was a Subie Impreza RS 2.5, which is what we got pre WRX. It was awesome in the snow and yes, outside of past head gasket and oil consumption issues I'd buy another Subaru if they offered one that actually appealed to me.

 

[Shrek27]

" 3. What are the risks of obsolescence with these new software/chip components and features. What will you have to work with 10 or 15 (or fewer) years from now if a component dies on your beloved 4x4 and that component is no longer being manufactured and the chip design and/or software was proprietary (exclusively owned) and/or there are no companies or programmers interested in building this component for the few buyers of your model in that model year? "

This worries me the most when thinking of making the Bronco my "forever" vehicle. We can't really expect to be driving these in 50 years like an early Bronco. Those days are gone.

 

[Hey Buddy]

The Broncos of which you speak are now more expensive than my base model!

Maybe look for some old military vehicles in an auction at gov't surplus, or whatever it is?

 

[DriveAllNight]

I can run Atari 2600 and Commodore 64 games if I want to, there will always be replacement hardware and software to run older cars - especially popular ones like the Bronco

 

[Shane78]

Did i just read a manifesto?

 

[Lowcountry Bronco]

" 3. What are the risks of obsolescence with these new software/chip components and features. What will you have to work with 10 or 15 (or fewer) years from now if a component dies on your beloved 4x4 and that component is no longer being manufactured and the chip design and/or software was proprietary (exclusively owned) and/or there are no companies or programmers interested in building this component for the few buyers of your model in that model year? "

This worries me the most when thinking of making the Bronco my "forever" vehicle. We can't really expect to be driving these in 50 years like an early Bronco. Those days are gone.

I can run Atari 2600 and Commodore 64 games if I want to, there will always be replacement hardware and software to run older cars - especially popular ones like the Bronco

There was some article I was reading a couple of weeks ago about the CRT screens that were in the late 80's Buick Riviera and Reatta that there's people out there that still refurbish them and keep them running. I know my wife's old Lexus SC we had there were places you could get all the screens that had long faded out redone like new.

This might be a good time for a couple of electrical or computer engineers to break off and open a business that either retrofits/repairs/updates future collectibles because all the truly high-end cars are even more tech-ridden than we are and are doomed to life as rolling art once the warranty expires.

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

" 3. What are the risks of obsolescence with these new software/chip components and features. What will you have to work with 10 or 15 (or fewer) years from now if a component dies on your beloved 4x4 and that component is no longer being manufactured and the chip design and/or software was proprietary (exclusively owned) and/or there are no companies or programmers interested in building this component for the few buyers of your model in that model year? "

This worries me the most when thinking of making the Bronco my "forever" vehicle. We can't really expect to be driving these in 50 years like an early Bronco. Those days are gone.

Well, seeing that there have been computer chips in cars for about 40 years, I‘d say that shouldn’t be a concern.

Do features get old? Sure, but electronics don’t just degrade; that would be batteries. Chips also have no moving parts, so they’re not really something that fails. All of the other parts of the car will fail long before the chips do. The car computer itself may fail since it has several parts, but they can be replaced, upgraded, etc.

The chips in your car also don’t serve the function that they do in your laptop. In your laptop, the chip is the star of the show. In your car, the chip(s) just handle functions, including drive by wire, but that process doesn’t really change over the course of the life of the vehicle; acceleration and braking are just that. CarPlay may go obsolete, but just as the stereo in your 1992 Civic, you can change out the head unit to “upgrade“ it.

Your true concern for longevity is your engine, then tranny, and maybe all of the cheap plastic everywhere. Even still, the average car on the road in America is around 17 years old and driven by a bunch of idiots who barely keep up with changing the oil.

Think we who actually care somewhat should be fine.

 

[timhood]

For my taste the only user comfort feature that would need to be retained is air conditioning (I'm old...).

This is where you lost me. My 4x4 vehicle needs to be able to take me to places, and I don't see the point of slogging through the drive just to save a little money. No way I'm spending 4 hours listening to wind noise. The things that some people consider unnecessary are what make a vehicle like this livable on a daily basis.

For many of these customers, having a good 4x4 capability in this second vehicle could be highly desired because of a need to:
- be able to get to more remote areas for fishing, hunting, camping, etc.
- be able to better operate in poor weather conditions such as snow that the family car cannot handle.
- have the ability to add a tow bar to this second vehicle if needed.
- have the second car be a new model with warranty support, less maintenance expense, and far more reliability than the old/used beater car option.

Let's face it: most AWD SUVs today fit these criteria. Something used but not too old would be relatively inexpensive and have many of those comforts included. I'd venture to say that for most Bronco owners, it's a lifestyle image vehicle that won't go anywhere a Subaru Outback could go. Those customers aren't going to forego the items you think are non-necessities. For many of the rest of us, the Bronco does not have the luxury of being a spare vehicle for off-road use only. So, it needs to have enough features to make it livable.

2- Another scenario where a less expensive basic transportation model could be highly desirable is when the household has new (teenage) drivers and there is a desire to provide them with safe and reliable (new vehicle) transportation but no interest in providing an entertainment system driving distractions and other distractions operating non-essential bells and whistles features. With the statistical probability of the new drivers having more accidents, it could be highly beneficial to have reduced repair or replacement costs (lower insurance also?) for a vehicle with fewer expensive electronic components. Add to this the probability that customers in this good-cheap-vehicle for teenagers would also desire the 4x4 features and uses mentioned in #1 above.

In our family, that was the older car. We simply didn't trade in cars when getting new ones, and the older, but not too old, late model vehicle was the perfect teen vehicle.

I think the general problem with your line of thinking is two-fold:

Modern NHTSA requirements require a certain amount of tech in cars. Adding features that utilize that same tech is inexpensive (relatively speaking). You'd have a lot of customers wondering why so many cheap, easy-to-include items were left out just to save $100 (or whatever).

The actual market for the vehicle you describe is likely very small. It might seem larger in an enthusiast forum where a few people chime in and say, "This is exactly what I'd want," but it's very common for people to say one thing and not back that up when the time comes to commit. Look at the 2-door and stick shift as items that people say they want, but the pre-purchase surveys overstate the actual purchase take rates. When people start examining the trade-offs, they back out.

 

[KABQ]

I bought a Basesquatch. Ford no longer makes a Base Bronco because the margins are smaller than the higher packages. Large automakers are more beholden to the shareholders than the customers, so lower margin autos get cut.

 

[Y2KFirehawk]

While perhaps sacrilege to mention here, this thread reminds me of the 2016 Jeep Shortcut concept. (Which interestingly also resurfaced at this year's Easter Jeep Safari)

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