B&O Audio system "Scientific" incremental upgrade - what really improved things

[indio22]

The dash underneath is completely open, just wires and tubes and things, no enclosed speaker box. You could just use some foam tape to seal the speakers really well against the dash, but I didn't, and I doubt it would make much difference. It might sound better if there were sealed boxes, but it sounds pretty good as it is.

One thing that I thought might be good is getting a custom speaker pod for the front window pillar. You can mount a tweeter there, facing into the car, and then mount a midrange speaker in the dash. But it's a little ugly.

Yep that's why I wrote "box" in quotes. It's not a sealed box in the sense of a home speaker, but Ford still went to the trouble of sealing the edge of the speakers against the grill, directing more of the back sound waves into the dash inner workings, rather than right up and out with the front sound waves.

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[indio22]

From what I understand, not really, the backside people were usually filled with poly fill. But the front front are always open.

The stock speakers have an outer lip with foam, which mates to the round ridge on the speaker grills. That helps direct sound from the front of the speaker outward, while sound from the back side is directed into the dash.

Photo below shows the speaker lip and grill ridge. When assembled in the dash they mate up.

 

[Brian_B]

The stock speakers have an outer lip with foam, which mates to the round ridge on the speaker grills. That helps direct sound from the front of the speaker outward, while sound from the back side is directed into the dash.

Photo below shows the speaker lip and grill ridge. When assembled in the dash they mate up.

That’s not there to direct any sound. It’s to keep the speaker from rattling against the grill - as much or more from bumps as sound vibration

 

[DrRoboto]

The stock speakers have an outer lip with foam, which mates to the round ridge on the speaker grills. That helps direct sound from the front of the speaker outward, while sound from the back side is directed into the dash.

Photo below shows the speaker lip and grill ridge. When assembled in the dash they mate up.

I did put some thick and narrow foam tape on the kick panel speakers, but I don't know if it makes a difference.I didn't do it anywhere else.

Same with Kilmat - that's to keep the panels from reverberating so much, but it can only do so much. I think those things are the last 3%, and new speakers and a sub amp are the 97%.

 

[DrRoboto]

cool! im in your boat also. dont need to rattle, but I want clean base. have any pics? From where did you power the 500.1 and where did you get the signal?

The signal just comes from the factory subwoofer speaker line, the kicker amp is ok with speaker-level inputs. The power is an 8 gage cable I ran along the rest of the wires all the way to the battery. There's even a rubber grommet filling a hole in the firewall near the steering column that's there for us to run wires through.

 

[indio22]

That’s not there to direct any sound. It’s to keep the speaker from rattling against the grill - as much or more from bumps as sound vibration

Not necessarily. If there was concern about rattling, Ford could have simply had a sufficient gap between speaker and grill, as occurs when some aftermarket speakers are installed. Are people having rattling issues with those?

Instead Ford added a downward protruding ridge to the grill and used a speaker with lip and foam to mate up. I think Ford was trying to contain the back sound waves as much as possible given the dash limitations, while directing the desired sound waves outward.

 

[Mjasi3]

The signal just comes from the factory subwoofer speaker line, the kicker amp is ok with speaker-level inputs. The power is an 8 gage cable I ran along the rest of the wires all the way to the battery. There's even a rubber grommet filling a hole in the firewall near the steering column that's there for us to run wires through.

Ok. Thank you!

 

[broughtie]

@DrRoboto Crutchfield website says the JL speakers don’t fit. Did you have to do any extra work to install or just easy plug and play replacement?

 

[DrRoboto]

@DrRoboto Crutchfield website says the JL speakers don’t fit. Did you have to do any extra work to install or just easy plug and play replacement?

Yeah, I actually asked them about that - they said that if the tolerance in the measurements are close enough that there's a chance the grill will touch the speaker, they list it as not fitting. The jl c2's have a little plastic bar over the tweeters, so if they did touch the grill it's probably ok; but I don't think they do.

The mounting holes all lined up just fine.

A lot of people locally, at stereo stores and actually the guy I talked to at crutchfield, told me they liked the jl speakers in part because the tweeter is silk, not aluminum, and thus is less harsh. The Internet seems to like Hertz speakers. I'm sure there are many good options.

 

[braddavis2017]

I’m curious why you went with the Alpine S2-W8D4 subwoofer instead of the JL Audio Stealthbox. One would think sticking with the same brand would be wise for cohesion but maybe it’s better to mix and match for the best sound?

Kinda like this?

 

[heavyD]

Not necessarily. If there was concern about rattling, Ford could have simply had a sufficient gap between speaker and grill, as occurs when some aftermarket speakers are installed. Are people having rattling issues with those?

Instead Ford added a downward protruding ridge to the grill and used a speaker with lip and foam to mate up. I think Ford was trying to contain the back sound waves as much as possible given the dash limitations, while directing the desired sound waves outward.

Nah. It's for rattling 100%. Plenty of manufacturers use foam around speakers that are mounted close enough to the grill that vibrations can be transferred under low frequecies. Foam is not used to conduct or direct sound waves as it can actually absorb them.

 

[DrRoboto]

I’m curious why you went with the Alpine S2-W8D4 subwoofer instead of the JL Audio Stealthbox. One would think sticking with the same brand would be wise for cohesion but maybe it’s better to mix and match for the best sound?

Kinda like this?

The stealth box is $1100! My entire upgrade cost less than that.

Also, the factory box is obviously highly engineered to use the existing space and include a port. I guessed that it's as good as anything that could fit in there, and as far as I can tell, it is.

The stealth box is just an enclosure, fiberglass, that has to fit in the same space. There can't be anything special about it. It doesn't have a port, it's sealed. The driver is larger, there is that.

Maybe the JL stealth box would be better, but the Alpine driver in the factory box is quite good. Maybe a jl driver would fit in the factory box. I think matching the speaker voicing is more important among the speakers that are all on the same amp.

 

[indio22]

Nah. It's for rattling 100%. Plenty of manufacturers use foam around speakers that are mounted close enough to the grill that vibrations can be transferred under low frequecies. Foam is not used to conduct or direct sound waves as it can actually absorb them.

We'll have to disagree. Foam is in fact used to help seal speaker surfaces, including to help prevent back waves from mixing with front waves, and that's likely what Ford did with their design of the dash grills. In particular, it's why Ford added a ridge to the grill that protrudes down from the grill, mating with the speaker surround housing, using foam to seal that interface.

The stock speaker averages around 1/2" or so distance from the dash grills, so there is little danger of contacting the grill and causing vibration. Furthermore if dash grill vibration simply from sound waves was an issue, a lot of folks around here would currently be having grill vibration issues, as their aftermarket speakers no longer make contact with the grill via a foam surround.

 

[DrRoboto]

great write up. Did you go with a larger sub or same size?

Same physical size, much higher power handling - 300w RMS, 900w peak if I remember correctly. Actually the same power as the jl stealth box, though the factory enclosure and the Alpine subwoofer I used are 8", while the jl stealth box is 10".

I used the alpine because it's a dual 4ohm coil, same as the factory, so I could use it without an additional amp. Since I subsequently upgraded the amp and have determined it really needs it, the dual coil is no longer a requirement. Some other brand is probably just as good, if it fits physically.

 

[heavyD]

We'll have to disagree. Foam is in fact used to help seal speaker surfaces, including to help prevent back waves from mixing with front waves, and that's likely what Ford did with their design of the dash grills. In particular, it's why Ford added a ridge to the grill that protrudes down from the grill, mating with the speaker surround housing, using foam to seal that interface.

The stock speaker averages around 1/2" or so distance from the dash grills, so there is little danger of contacting the grill and causing vibration. Furthermore if dash grill vibration simply from sound waves was an issue, a lot of folks around here would currently be having grill vibration issues, as their aftermarket speakers no longer make contact with the grill via a foam surround.

Yeah we will definitely agree to disagree here.

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