B&O Audio system "Scientific" incremental upgrade - what really improved things

[DrRoboto]

Hi all, I just finished upgrading my B&O sound system, and it's now above the bar. I made changes incrementally, doing A/B testing, to see what made an actual difference, without just replacing the entire thing. I hope sharing my experience will be helpful to others, I found it very helpful to read what people have posted before me.

TL;DNR summary: replace the speakers, including the subwoofer, in the factory locations; and use a subwoofer amp that will compensate for the head unit's bass attenuation curve (I used the Kicker Key 500.1, and so far it seems great). It passes this suite of tests with flying colors, is much more clear than before, and is more than loud enough.

Longer story: My goal was to have a near-audiophile system; it's surprisingly easy to get great sound these days. I don't need to rattle windows, I just need to hear the recording accurately. My hypothesis is that the engineers really wanted to build a great system within the constraints and did some great engineering, but then had to cheap out on some things towards the end, and that made it suck. The subwoofer box looks highly engineered and well thought out, and the amp is probably decent (it's not hard to make a class-D amp with super low distortion now), and the tuning and EQ of the amp is probably a very good match for the Bronco's interior and speaker locations. They probably had to go with crummier speakers to cut costs, and limited power in the subwoofer, since that's typically the most power-hungry. You can hear the significant roll-off the amp does after every loud sound to limit the RMS power to the subwoofer.

The components I bought are:
- JL Audio C2-400x speakers; three went into the dash, and one in a rear pod. I still have the factory speaker in one pod, because it's mostly filler, not the main source for sound. I might replace it someday.
- JL Audio C2-650x speakers for the kick panels
- Alpine S2-W8D4 subwoofer - fits in the factory B&O subwoofer box, and has two 4-ohm voice coils, so I could try it on the factory amp.
- Kicker Key 500.1 amp.

Since speakers are sold in pairs, I bought two pairs of the 4" speakers, and replaced the three dash speakers and one rear pod. This gave me the opportunity to listen to the factory speaker side-by-side with the JL Audio speakers, and there is a big difference in clarity. It just seems like there's a lot more to the music from the JL speakers; the factory speakers are missing a lot, and muddy by comparison.

I was concerned about getting the subwoofer amp to power the new subwoofer, because I did not know if it would make a difference, and it's an investment in money and time to install. The factory system is loud enough, it just sounded really muddy. But now that I have installed it, I can say unequivocally that adding the amplifier made a huge difference with the subwoofer. It's now quite good. Important: the kicker amp has an EQ compensation that measures the head unit's subwoofer attenuation as it limits the power to the subwoofer, and then compensates for it to get a flat frequency response with its own internal EQ. It really worked. Get that feature, whatever amp you get.

I mounted the amplifier between the subwoofer box and the rear of the car, screwing into some little blocks that clamp it into the body pillar there. It's a good place for the wiring. The 17' 8 gauge power wire wasn't quite long enough - I think 20' would be long enough.

I started with the 6.5" kick panel speakers; then a pair of dash speakers; then the subwoofer; then the center speaker and a rear pod; and finally the subwoofer amp. Each step saw noticeable improvement. Now, I'm very happy with it! the cost was around $1000 total.

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[Draughon]

I started with replacing the dash with Focals and the kickers with JL, replaced the factory sub with an 8'' kicker .....but it just wasn't enough and finally bit the bullet and re-replaced everything with Morels and the Mobridge DSP and upgraded to larger 6.5'' pods in the back.

Also decided since I was being insane to add a few high powered 8'' wakeboarding cans (Wetsounds) to the mix as well.

Added a secondary JL 500.1 amp (it fits almost perfectly in the rear driver's tailight area) and 12'' JL sub to the back.

(I have a 2D - so had to shoehorn some stuff in to make it work)

The difference in the magnet sizes between the JLs and the Morels was pretty significant (they have higher RMS and peak wattage as well)

Hi all, I just finished upgrading my B&O sound system, and it's now above the bar. I made changes incrementally, doing A/B testing, to see what made an actual difference, without just replacing the entire thing. I hope sharing my experience will be helpful to others, I found it very helpful to read what people have posted before me.

TL;DNR summary: replace the speakers, including the subwoofer, in the factory locations; and use a subwoofer amp that will compensate for the head unit's bass attenuation curve (I used the Kicker Key 500.1, and so far it seems great). It passes this suite of tests with flying colors, is much more clear than before, and is more than loud enough.

Longer story: My goal was to have a near-audiophile system; it's surprisingly easy to get great sound these days. I don't need to rattle windows, I just need to hear the recording accurately. My hypothesis is that the engineers really wanted to build a great system within the constraints and did some great engineering, but then had to cheap out on some things towards the end, and that made it suck. The subwoofer box looks highly engineered and well thought out, and the amp is probably decent (it's not hard to make a class-D amp with super low distortion now), and the tuning and EQ of the amp is probably a very good match for the Bronco's interior and speaker locations. They probably had to go with crummier speakers to cut costs, and limited power in the subwoofer, since that's typically the most power-hungry. You can hear the significant roll-off the amp does after every loud sound to limit the RMS power to the subwoofer.

The components I bought are:
- JL Audio C2-400x speakers; three went into the dash, and one in a rear pod. I still have the factory speaker in one pod, because it's mostly filler, not the main source for sound. I might replace it someday.
- JL Audio C2-650x speakers for the kick panels
- Alpine S2-W8D4 subwoofer - fits in the factory B&O subwoofer box, and has two 4-ohm voice coils, so I could try it on the factory amp.
- Kicker Key 500.1 amp.

Since speakers are sold in pairs, I bought two pairs of the 4" speakers, and replaced the three dash speakers and one rear pod. This gave me the opportunity to listen to the factory speaker side-by-side with the JL Audio speakers, and there is a big difference in clarity. It just seems like there's a lot more to the music from the JL speakers; the factory speakers are missing a lot, and muddy by comparison.

I was concerned about getting the subwoofer amp to power the new subwoofer, because I did not know if it would make a difference, and it's an investment in money and time to install. The factory system is loud enough, it just sounded really muddy. But now that I have installed it, I can say unequivocally that adding the amplifier made a huge difference with the subwoofer. It's now quite good. Important: the kicker amp has an EQ compensation that measures the head unit's subwoofer attenuation as it limits the power to the subwoofer, and then compensates for it to get a flat frequency response with its own internal EQ. It really worked. Get that feature, whatever amp you get.

I mounted the amplifier between the subwoofer box and the rear of the car, screwing into some little blocks that clamp it into the body pillar there. It's a good place for the wiring. The 17' 8 gauge power wire wasn't quite long enough - I think 20' would be long enough.

I started with the 6.5" kick panel speakers; then a pair of dash speakers; then the subwoofer; then the center speaker and a rear pod; and finally the subwoofer amp. Each step saw noticeable improvement. Now, I'm very happy with it! the cost was around $1000 total.

 

[Mjasi3]

Hi all, I just finished upgrading my B&O sound system, and it's now above the bar. I made changes incrementally, doing A/B testing, to see what made an actual difference, without just replacing the entire thing. I hope sharing my experience will be helpful to others, I found it very helpful to read what people have posted before me.

TL;DNR summary: replace the speakers, including the subwoofer, in the factory locations; and use a subwoofer amp that will compensate for the head unit's bass attenuation curve (I used the Kicker Key 500.1, and so far it seems great). It passes this suite of tests with flying colors, is much more clear than before, and is more than loud enough.

Longer story: My goal was to have a near-audiophile system; it's surprisingly easy to get great sound these days. I don't need to rattle windows, I just need to hear the recording accurately. My hypothesis is that the engineers really wanted to build a great system within the constraints and did some great engineering, but then had to cheap out on some things towards the end, and that made it suck. The subwoofer box looks highly engineered and well thought out, and the amp is probably decent (it's not hard to make a class-D amp with super low distortion now), and the tuning and EQ of the amp is probably a very good match for the Bronco's interior and speaker locations. They probably had to go with crummier speakers to cut costs, and limited power in the subwoofer, since that's typically the most power-hungry. You can hear the significant roll-off the amp does after every loud sound to limit the RMS power to the subwoofer.

The components I bought are:
- JL Audio C2-400x speakers; three went into the dash, and one in a rear pod. I still have the factory speaker in one pod, because it's mostly filler, not the main source for sound. I might replace it someday.
- JL Audio C2-650x speakers for the kick panels
- Alpine S2-W8D4 subwoofer - fits in the factory B&O subwoofer box, and has two 4-ohm voice coils, so I could try it on the factory amp.
- Kicker Key 500.1 amp.

Since speakers are sold in pairs, I bought two pairs of the 4" speakers, and replaced the three dash speakers and one rear pod. This gave me the opportunity to listen to the factory speaker side-by-side with the JL Audio speakers, and there is a big difference in clarity. It just seems like there's a lot more to the music from the JL speakers; the factory speakers are missing a lot, and muddy by comparison.

I was concerned about getting the subwoofer amp to power the new subwoofer, because I did not know if it would make a difference, and it's an investment in money and time to install. The factory system is loud enough, it just sounded really muddy. But now that I have installed it, I can say unequivocally that adding the amplifier made a huge difference with the subwoofer. It's now quite good. Important: the kicker amp has an EQ compensation that measures the head unit's subwoofer attenuation as it limits the power to the subwoofer, and then compensates for it to get a flat frequency response with its own internal EQ. It really worked. Get that feature, whatever amp you get.

I mounted the amplifier between the subwoofer box and the rear of the car, screwing into some little blocks that clamp it into the body pillar there. It's a good place for the wiring. The 17' 8 gauge power wire wasn't quite long enough - I think 20' would be long enough.

I started with the 6.5" kick panel speakers; then a pair of dash speakers; then the subwoofer; then the center speaker and a rear pod; and finally the subwoofer amp. Each step saw noticeable improvement. Now, I'm very happy with it! the cost was around $1000 total.

cool! im in your boat also. dont need to rattle, but I want clean base. have any pics? From where did you power the 500.1 and where did you get the signal?

 

[Draughon]

The Mobridge is a very VERY cool little unit - it has an RCA pre-out that I ran underneath the padding to the JL Amp - and that signal fires up the sub - worked like a charm!

• 6x 150W Channels @ 4 ohms | 75W RMS
• 2x 300W Channels @ 4 ohms | 150W RMS
• 1x 500W Subwoofer Channel @ 4 ohms (or 800W @ 2 Ohms) | 250w RMS & 400w RMS
• 1x 4V RCA pre-out
• <0.01%THD
• 105db SNR

=

cool! im in your boat also. dont need to rattle, but I want clean base. have any pics? From where did you power the 500.1 and where did you get the signal?

 

[RideClimbNJ]

Hi all, I just finished upgrading my B&O sound system, and it's now above the bar. I made changes incrementally, doing A/B testing, to see what made an actual difference, without just replacing the entire thing. I hope sharing my experience will be helpful to others, I found it very helpful to read what people have posted before me.

TL;DNR summary: replace the speakers, including the subwoofer, in the factory locations; and use a subwoofer amp that will compensate for the head unit's bass attenuation curve (I used the Kicker Key 500.1, and so far it seems great). It passes this suite of tests with flying colors, is much more clear than before, and is more than loud enough.

Longer story: My goal was to have a near-audiophile system; it's surprisingly easy to get great sound these days. I don't need to rattle windows, I just need to hear the recording accurately. My hypothesis is that the engineers really wanted to build a great system within the constraints and did some great engineering, but then had to cheap out on some things towards the end, and that made it suck. The subwoofer box looks highly engineered and well thought out, and the amp is probably decent (it's not hard to make a class-D amp with super low distortion now), and the tuning and EQ of the amp is probably a very good match for the Bronco's interior and speaker locations. They probably had to go with crummier speakers to cut costs, and limited power in the subwoofer, since that's typically the most power-hungry. You can hear the significant roll-off the amp does after every loud sound to limit the RMS power to the subwoofer.

The components I bought are:
- JL Audio C2-400x speakers; three went into the dash, and one in a rear pod. I still have the factory speaker in one pod, because it's mostly filler, not the main source for sound. I might replace it someday.
- JL Audio C2-650x speakers for the kick panels
- Alpine S2-W8D4 subwoofer - fits in the factory B&O subwoofer box, and has two 4-ohm voice coils, so I could try it on the factory amp.
- Kicker Key 500.1 amp.

Since speakers are sold in pairs, I bought two pairs of the 4" speakers, and replaced the three dash speakers and one rear pod. This gave me the opportunity to listen to the factory speaker side-by-side with the JL Audio speakers, and there is a big difference in clarity. It just seems like there's a lot more to the music from the JL speakers; the factory speakers are missing a lot, and muddy by comparison.

I was concerned about getting the subwoofer amp to power the new subwoofer, because I did not know if it would make a difference, and it's an investment in money and time to install. The factory system is loud enough, it just sounded really muddy. But now that I have installed it, I can say unequivocally that adding the amplifier made a huge difference with the subwoofer. It's now quite good. Important: the kicker amp has an EQ compensation that measures the head unit's subwoofer attenuation as it limits the power to the subwoofer, and then compensates for it to get a flat frequency response with its own internal EQ. It really worked. Get that feature, whatever amp you get.

I mounted the amplifier between the subwoofer box and the rear of the car, screwing into some little blocks that clamp it into the body pillar there. It's a good place for the wiring. The 17' 8 gauge power wire wasn't quite long enough - I think 20' would be long enough.

I started with the 6.5" kick panel speakers; then a pair of dash speakers; then the subwoofer; then the center speaker and a rear pod; and finally the subwoofer amp. Each step saw noticeable improvement. Now, I'm very happy with it! the cost was around $1000 total.

great write up. Did you go with a larger sub or same size?

 

[DrRoboto]

great write up. Did you go with a larger sub or same size?

I used the B&O factory enclosure, which has an 8" subwoofer in it, but it's really crummy and low power, with a tiny little coil and magnet in there. I replaced it with a same size drop -in replacement that has a much bigger power handling capability. I think there are a few brands that will fit in there, but the Alpine is one of them.

 

[DemonGT]

So the Alpine sub using the factory amp isnt recommended?

 

[indio22]

Some aftermarket 4" dash speakers do not mate up and seal against the grills, failing to create a speaker "box", thus letting sound from the backside of the speaker to more easily escape. Is that not a concern to anyone?

 

[DrRoboto]

So the Alpine sub using the factory amp isnt recommended?

I tried it, and I think it was an improvement, but it wasn't dramatic; since I couldn't directly compare side but side, it's possible I wanted it to sound better because I spent money on it, so it seemed better. It was loud at times, so I thought maybe there's enough power there; but still it was muddy, and obviously not filling in evenly, compared to listening to music on my home system or headphones. I was hesitant to get the amp, because of the expense and the effort to wire an 8-gage power wire from the battery all the way to the rear corner of the car, and figure out a way to mount the amp.

However, once I did install it, the improvement was night and day. The key algorithm that fills in the attenuation from the head unit, which is there originally to seriously limit the RMS power draw, is fixed. The advertising from Kicker about the key algorithm is real. Now I've got the low end to all my music, even rather bass-heavy stuff.

 

[DrRoboto]

Some aftermarket 4" dash speakers do not mate up and seal against the grills, failing to create a speaker "box", thus letting sound from the backside of the speaker to more easily escape. Is that not a concern to anyone?

The dash underneath is completely open, just wires and tubes and things, no enclosed speaker box. You could just use some foam tape to seal the speakers really well against the dash, but I didn't, and I doubt it would make much difference. It might sound better if there were sealed boxes, but it sounds pretty good as it is.

One thing that I thought might be good is getting a custom speaker pod for the front window pillar. You can mount a tweeter there, facing into the car, and then mount a midrange speaker in the dash. But it's a little ugly.

 

[Mjasi3]

Some aftermarket 4" dash speakers do not mate up and seal against the grills, failing to create a speaker "box", thus letting sound from the backside of the speaker to more easily escape. Is that not a concern to anyone?

From what I understand, not really, the backside people were usually filled with poly fill. But the front front are always open.

 

[Mjasi3]

I tried it, and I think it was an improvement, but it wasn't dramatic; since I couldn't directly compare side but side, it's possible I wanted it to sound better because I spent money on it, so it seemed better. It was loud at times, so I thought maybe there's enough power there; but still it was muddy, and obviously not filling in evenly, compared to listening to music on my home system or headphones. I was hesitant to get the amp, because of the expense and the effort to wire an 8-gage power wire from the battery all the way to the rear corner of the car, and figure out a way to mount the amp.

However, once I did install it, the improvement was night and day. The key algorithm that fills in the attenuation from the head unit, which is there originally to seriously limit the RMS power draw, is fixed. The advertising from Kicker about the key algorithm is real. Now I've got the low end to all my music, even rather bass-heavy stuff.

Where did you pull your feed from for the new amp? Thanks.

 

[Brian_B]

Some aftermarket 4" dash speakers do not mate up and seal against the grills, failing to create a speaker "box", thus letting sound from the backside of the speaker to more easily escape. Is that not a concern to anyone?

How can you seal against the grill? It's ... full of holes anyway.

 

[Draughon]

I put a bit of killmat under them to help that a bit.

Some aftermarket 4" dash speakers do not mate up and seal against the grills, failing to create a speaker "box", thus letting sound from the backside of the speaker to more easily escape. Is that not a concern to anyone?

 

[indio22]

How can you seal against the grill? It's ... full of holes anyway.

The Bronco dash speaker grills only have holes inside of the round rib that seals against the stock speakers.

Edit: here's what I'm talking about ...

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