74Weld Portal Review

[SierraBronco]

Or the loctite they failed to put on maybe that's the kind I was supposed to use?

Blue loctite isn’t short for bluetooth?

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[SierraBronco]

Sorry, not laughing at you guys. Just the absurdity of this. Wow.

My next post after yours should show I’m laughing too

 

[Bikeric]

I am the Mechanical Engineering Manager and R&D Lab supervisor for a company that designs and manufactures gearboxes for the work truck industry. I am also the Bolted Joint guru for the Engineering dept.

We no longer use NPT for threading in our current designs because they leak. We have moved to SAE ORB style with O-rings. When we did have NPT threads we absolutely denied warranty claims if we discovered the use of Teflon tape. Liquid thread sealant was acceptable.

Are the other bolts, that hold the caliper on, being threaded into Aluminum?? Are those bolts also zinc plated?? Loctite would require you to apply Primer in order to cure. Loctite requires IRON and the absence of air to cure. Primer contains the Iron that is not present with a coated bolt threaded into an aluminum housing.

Nordlock washers can be thrown in the garbage, but it you must use them, they require 25-30% more torque during assembly. You will not achieve proper bolt tension at the standard torque application because of the under head friction of the Nordlocks. I confirmed this directly from the Lead Engineer of Nordlock and promptly removed them from our product lines.

 

[SierraBronco]

I am the Mechanical Engineering Manager and R&D Lab supervisor for a company that designs and manufactures gearboxes for the work truck industry. I am also the Bolted Joint guru for the Engineering dept.

We no longer use NPT for threading in our current designs because they leak. We have moved to SAE ORB style with O-rings. When we did have NPT threads we absolutely denied warranty claims if we discovered the use of Teflon tape. Liquid thread sealant was acceptable.

Are the other bolts, that hold the caliper on, being threaded into Aluminum?? Are those bolts also zinc plated?? Loctite would require you to apply Primer in order to cure. Loctite requires IRON and the absence of air to cure. Primer contains the Iron that is not present with a coated bolt threaded into an aluminum housing.

Nordlock washers can be thrown in the garbage, but it you must use them, they require 25-30% more torque during assembly. You will not achieve proper bolt tension at the standard torque application because of the under head friction of the Nordlocks. I confirmed this directly from the Lead Engineer of Nordlock and promptly removed them from our product lines.

Uhmmmmmmmmm. They is shiny and threading into aluminum. No mentioning of using any kind of primer. I didn’t use any. And now that you mention it, I do recall talking to the portal builder and he suggested applying loctite to the studs that hold the boxes on to the rear axle, but allowing them to sit overnight to cure before installing them. I did know that was incorrect as the loctite doesn’t start to work until it’s threaded in, but I did NOT know about the iron bit. Thank you for bringing this up!

 

[SierraBronco]

I am the Mechanical Engineering Manager and R&D Lab supervisor for a company that designs and manufactures gearboxes for the work truck industry. I am also the Bolted Joint guru for the Engineering dept.

We no longer use NPT for threading in our current designs because they leak. We have moved to SAE ORB style with O-rings. When we did have NPT threads we absolutely denied warranty claims if we discovered the use of Teflon tape. Liquid thread sealant was acceptable.

Are the other bolts, that hold the caliper on, being threaded into Aluminum?? Are those bolts also zinc plated?? Loctite would require you to apply Primer in order to cure. Loctite requires IRON and the absence of air to cure. Primer contains the Iron that is not present with a coated bolt threaded into an aluminum housing.

Nordlock washers can be thrown in the garbage, but it you must use them, they require 25-30% more torque during assembly. You will not achieve proper bolt tension at the standard torque application because of the under head friction of the Nordlocks. I confirmed this directly from the Lead Engineer of Nordlock and promptly removed them from our product lines.

Good stuff man

 

[Bikeric]

Uhmmmmmmmmm. They is shiny and threading into aluminum. No mentioning of using any kind of primer. I didn’t use any. And now that you mention it, I do recall talking to the portal builder and he suggested applying loctite to the studs that hold the boxes on to the rear axle, but allowing them to sit overnight to cure before installing them. I did know that was incorrect as the loctite doesn’t start to work until it’s threaded in, but I did NOT know about the iron bit. Thank you for bringing this up!

That does look like a zinc coating on the socket head cap screw. Normally those are a black oxide but the zinc provides environmental protection. Otherwise they would turn rusty orange in a month. Yes, you need the Primer

 

[Bikeric]

I don’t know what size the bolts are, but you need 2x the diameter of thread engagement with aluminum. If they are 10mm threads you need to have 20mm of the bolt threading into the aluminum. Steel only needs 1:1, where cast iron would be 1.5:1.

74Weld needs to look into having ND Microsperes applied to their bolts. It is a 2-part epoxy that is activated when the micro crystals are crushed during the threading process.

https://www.ndindustries.com/products/reactive-threadlocking/nd-microspheres-epoxy/

 

[ScLeCo]

This is what they said about loctite. Apparently they don't feel primer is needed.

"We also want to confirm that locktite 263 was used. There are other variations of "red" that require different steps such as a spray on primer or the locktite will not set."

 

[SierraBronco]

This is what they said about loctite. Apparently they don't feel primer is needed.

"We also want to confirm that locktite 263 was used. There are other variations of "red" that require different steps such as a spray on primer or the locktite will not set."

Welp-they simply told me “loctite.” Nothing else was specified. Not even blue vs red. I did red cuz red

 

[Bikeric]

This is what they said about loctite. Apparently they don't feel primer is needed.

"We also want to confirm that locktite 263 was used. There are other variations of "red" that require different steps such as a spray on primer or the locktite will not set."

I was not aware of the requirement until I went to a continuing education seminar a few years back. Loctite says they require “Active Ions” to cure that include Iron (that’s what the green primer contains). They also say aluminum and zinc are inactive and require the primer. The zinc coating effectively hides the iron of the bolt for environmental protection.

 

[SierraBronco]

So far so good on the other seal I thought might be leaking. Banana hands didn’t really fit in there to clean it off so one of the girls got it. No leaks so far driving around town.

 

[SierraBronco]

Update-Quinn brought new bolts, nordlocks, loctite 263, and the revised fill plugs to Sand Hollow for us. We (Mrs. Sierra Bronco and I) swapped them our. We were judicious with the brake cleaner on the portal box threads and only aired out the eyeballs a few times. The gear oil coming out of the fill port definitely worked it’s way inside the bolt openings on the driver portal. (The side that lost a bolt and worked it’s way loose again) The passenger side wasn’t as bad as the driver, but it wasn’t tight either. Both brackets up front vibrated against the threads and are no longer smooth pretty holes. Quinn said they’ll be fine but he is sending us

 

[Snacktime]

I don't think they are going to last 50k miles without some band aids. You should stock up on inserts in the tool box. The loctite thing seems to have caused some issues.

Quin is partially correct that the threads are still usable but they will need to be repaired next unthreading. Being aluminum you need all the strength you can get.

E-Z LOK EZ-450-6 Threaded Inserts for Metal, M6-1.0 Installation Kit, Steel, Black Oxide https://a.co/d/ckCenIl

 

[mpeugeot]

There's a new technology called "safety wire", it tends to be a good solution to keeping bolts in high vibration environments from backing off. Just saying.

Also, relying on threads in 6061 aluminum (or any aluminum for that matter) wouldn't be my first choice, which is partially why I was wondering why they didn't use an alloy like 7075, which allegedly, is significantly stronger (probably approaching 2x the strength).

 

[BAUS67]

There's a new technology called "safety wire", it tends to be a good solution to keeping bolts in high vibration environments from backing off. Just saying.

Also, relying on threads in 6061 aluminum (or any aluminum for that matter) wouldn't be my first choice, which is partially why I was wondering why they didn't use an alloy like 7075, which allegedly, is significantly stronger (probably approaching 2x the strength).

A buddy of mine worked on Harvick's Busch team. During the week he serviced the rear ends and transmissions. On race day he was the gas man. He has seen a few safety wire bolts in his day.

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