Using non-detergent gasoline and future regrets.

[SeptuagenarianSasquatch]

The 2.7L has both direct and port injection. The 2.3L is direct injection only.

I brought up a few other points on my above post, and would appreciate your thoughts. Is the Techron-Plus worth the extra money?
And is regular Top-Tier sufficient for our 2.7 PFDI's?
And thanks!

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[crenca]

I brought up a few other points on my above post, and would appreciate your thoughts. Is the Techron-Plus worth the extra money?
And is regular Top-Tier sufficient for our 2.7 PFDI's?
And thanks!

Hard to answer that question IMO, as too many unknowns. Folks like "The Motor Oil Geek" and others who actually do testing and have knowledge of the industry will often point to how variable additives are even within brands and standards such as "Top Tier".

Also not sure if having direct injection only vs. PFDI really matters that much, as low/no detergent gasoline would present problems for both.

I suspect Top-Tier standard (particularly the newer "+" standard) is good enough to keep your injectors (both of them) and the rest of circuit running quite well for the life of your vehicle, at least under normal circumstances.

Shell's premium with the ZDDP does appear to have a real anti-wear effect, but is its effect on piston/cylinder wear significant for you over the life of you ownership given how you operate your vehicle? Would an engine tear down and inspection at 100,000 miles even answer the question given that you don't have a control sample to compare it to?

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

they haven't updated to the proximity chip?

Never stick your card in another man's machine.

At the pump, they have prox and Apple Pay disabled, which is how I normally pay for gas at QT or Bucees.

At the Shell I'm referring to, but all up that way really, you have to go inside. It's not terrible, but I don't trust the swipe at the register any more than at the pump. Don't know why Shell stations would be any less secure, but seems to be the case here in Georgia or at least some parts; shame really as I really prefer Shell.

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

The stock 2.7 is, I understand, a " port-fuel/direct-injection (PFDI) engine." Same thing? And should I be spending on the Techron-Plus, or is regular Techron/Top Tier sufficient?

I've been buy non-Top-Tier, but branded, gas for most of my 47K miles (2022 Badlands 2.7L). I'm wondering if I should buy a case of Techron-Plus ($42/six, Amazon) and run that through my next several tanks, then stick with Costco.

And what about Gumout, Lucas, STP, SeaFoam? I notice on threads elswhere different brands have their own, often very enthusiastic, fan base.

Think I read someplace that Ford "DOES NOT" recommend adding any treatments. If so, I find this weird. I do understand a bit for oil and I wouldn't, but a fuel treatment is only detergent, not any of the snake oil HP boosters or stuff like that.

Techron is basically soap for gas, so what's not to like? My Bronco is 2 years old now and I've run premium exclusively following break in when I used plus for no reason. I've thought of getting some Techron more than once and think I will since many of you do with no issues.

Any thoughts on why adding would be bad?

 

[Rspayde]

At the pump, they have prox and Apple Pay disabled, which is how I normally pay for gas at QT or Bucees.

At the Shell I'm referring to, but all up that way really, you have to go inside. It's not terrible, but I don't trust the swipe at the register any more than at the pump. Don't know why Shell stations would be any less secure, but seems to be the case here in Georgia or at least some parts; shame really as I really prefer Shell.

All sketchy gas station purchases go on the Amex or Sapphire preferred because those two have proven very easy to deal with fraudulent charges. I don't even know if I have a debit card in my wallet at this point.

I try to almost exclusively fill up at Costco when I am there grocery shopping or otherwise buying shit I do not need. That 5% back on fuel adds up quick. You'd pass at least three Costco fuel stations when heading to most wheeling trips!

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

All sketchy gas station purchases go on the Amex or Sapphire preferred because those two have proven very easy to deal with fraudulent charges. I don't even know if I have a debit card in my wallet at this point.

I try to almost exclusively fill up at Costco when I am there grocery shopping or otherwise buying shit I do not need. That 5% back on fuel adds up quick. You'd pass at least three Costco fuel stations when heading to most wheeling trips!

True, but the Costco close to us is a Zoo in Brookhaven and it doesn't even has the gas pumps. QT is pretty cheap and Top Tier and right near work, but adding some Techron is smart, so think I'll do that every 5th fill up.

I do think about gas being the petrolhead that I am and used to be very snobby about Shell and Chevron. I've calmed a good bit over the years.

My real continued dilemma is the subject of oil. Don't want to open that can of worms, but as soon as this "package" I got at purchase with my dealership runs out for full synthetic Motorcraft, plan to switch to either Mobil 1 or Pennsoil that meet Ford spec. Always only full-synthetic.

 

[adam1991]

Think I read someplace that Ford "DOES NOT" recommend adding any treatments. If so, I find this weird. I do understand a bit for oil and I wouldn't, but a fuel treatment is only detergent, not any of the snake oil HP boosters or stuff like that.

People will do weird things. Ford just shuts the door on it all.

"Warranty claim? We found XYZ additive in your gas. Claim denied." It's not up to Ford to prove that XYZ is harmless. They just said, don't do it. That's the easy way out. They tested their stuff on pump gasoline, period--not on Marvel Mystery Oil that makes your Bronco fart lilacs.

 

[adam1991]

I don't even know if I have a debit card in my wallet at this point.

Never have or use a debit card. Ever.

Banks push the hell out of their co-branded debit cards. There's a reason for that--it benefits them, not me. I changed banks several years ago, and I had hell's own time getting them NOT to issue me a debit card, AND to issue me an ATM card instead. Either they didn't understand, or they deliberately chose to play dumb to try to get me to stop insisting.

I try to almost exclusively fill up at Costco when I am there grocery shopping or otherwise buying shit I do not need. That 5% back on fuel adds up quick.

I'm grandfathered into a Pentagon Federal CU VISA card that gives 5% back on any gasoline purchase anywhere. Even more, it just credits my account at the end of the month--none of the "you have to wait a year" crapola.

I'm sure plenty of people at the Costco gas station wonder why I insert my Citi VISA, wait, punch the "use different payment" button, pull my Citi VISA, then tap a different card.

 

[adam1991]

Always only full-synthetic.

Only AFTER I bought two cases of Mobil 1 on sale at Costco, did I hit up their web site. I discovered that the 5W-30 I bought, which met or exceeded the Ford specs, was this:

"An advanced full synthetic motor oil."

but when I viewed the safety data sheet, it showed this:

which comes from distilling crude oil. "An advanced full synthetic motor oil"?

Anyway, right below that on Mobil 1's page is this:

Oh, THERE'S their full synthetic. Not to be confused with their full synthetic. Their full synthetic does NOT have anything distilled from crude oil, as opposed to their full synthetic that does.

All straightened out? Good!

 

[SeptuagenarianSasquatch]

People will do weird things. Ford just shuts the door on it all.

"Warranty claim? We found XYZ additive in your gas. Claim denied." It's not up to Ford to prove that XYZ is harmless. They just said, don't do it. That's the easy way out. They tested their stuff on pump gasoline, period--not on Marvel Mystery Oil that makes your Bronco fart lilacs.

@MadMan4BamaNATL posted, "Think I read someplace that Ford "DOES NOT" recommend adding any treatments."

From the owner's manual:

" We recommend Top Tier detergent gasolines, where available to help minimize engine deposits and maintain optimal vehicle and engine performance. ...

...But
Do not use:

• Diesel fuel.
• Fuels containing kerosene or paraffin.
• Fuel containing more than 15% ethanol (E15) or E85 fuel.
• Fuels containing methanol.
• Fuels containing metallic-based additives, including manganese-based compounds.
• Fuels containing the octane booster additive, methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).
• Leaded fuel, using leaded fuel is prohibited by law.

The use of fuels with metallic compounds such as methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl, which is a manganese-based fuel additive, will impair engine performance and affect the emission control system."

Perhaps you STEM people can check Techron, SeaFoam, and others to determine whether these prohibited compounds are in them? But I think MadMan4BamaNATL's admonition doesn't carry to detergent additives.

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

Only AFTER I bought two cases of Mobil 1 on sale at Costco, did I hit up their web site. I discovered that the 5W-30 I bought, which met or exceeded the Ford specs, was this:

"An advanced full synthetic motor oil."

but when I viewed the safety data sheet, it showed this:

which comes from distilling crude oil. "An advanced full synthetic motor oil"?

Anyway, right below that on Mobil 1's page is this:

Oh, THERE'S their full synthetic. Not to be confused with their full synthetic. Their full synthetic does NOT have anything distilled from crude oil, as opposed to their full synthetic that does.

All straightened out? Good!

Full Synthetic does come from oil I believe, so not all man made chemicals, so something organic is in there, just not much.

There is a thread somewhere on the forum with the full list of "approved" motor oils. I strongly suggest that all of us follow that list exclusively and there shouldn't be a reason not to.

I, like others, have an affinity for a few brands. My driveline oils are always Amsoil and would for motor oil too, but they only have 1 on the Ford list. I have no issue with that, but unless buying a lot or far in advance, Amsoil can run low on stock and it costs a small fortune if I were to change every 5-6K miles, which is what I do now at the dealership since it's paid for.

Don't know the difference in the two so called full synthetics you've pointed out, but whichever is on the Ford approved list is the one you go with.

 

[OscarHTX]

Interesting, it's not showing the Buc-ees by me is Top Tier.

I don't thino I've seen a Top Tier sticker on any Bucees pump. I still fill up with their 93 and the Bronco loves it. I get more "miles to E" with bucees gas vs. Shell 93.

I wonder why that is.

 

[crenca]

If you want to go down the rabbit hole you can watch the "the motor oil geek" explain why some full synthetics brands are in fact distillates, called group 3, and other brands are "full synthetics" that are more traditionally synthetically derived from both crude oil and other sources, such as Natural Gas, called group 4's.

Just know that it doesn't really matter, in that some group threes are better than group 4 brands and vice versa, just depends on your particular application which one you should use...

 

[adam1991]

I, like others, have an affinity for a few brands. My driveline oils are always Amsoil and would for motor oil too, but they only have 1 on the Ford list. I have no issue with that, but unless buying a lot or far in advance, Amsoil can run low on stock and it costs a small fortune if I were to change every 5-6K miles, which is what I do now at the dealership since it's paid for.

Don't know the difference in the two so called full synthetics you've pointed out, but whichever is on the Ford approved list is the one you go with.

Each of the Mobil 1 oils meets or exceeds the Ford spec for my 2.7.

Amsoil has a full line of 4 oils for our application, from their Signature expensive stuff on down. They say these meet our specs.

I used the Mobil 1 in question and bought a Ford filter (included all O-rings) plus a drain plug, and paid $62 for the whole kit. Amsoil has a kit with their "Extended Life Protection" oil (one step down from their Signature) plus their filter (complete with O-rings), no drain plug, for $102. That's $40 extra, plus drain plug. And I still wouldn't go more than 5K miles on it. So yeah, a small fortune.

I have another 10K miles before I have to worry about this, but now I'm curious to see what the full synth Mobil 1 costs.

 

[B22-2023]

My real continued dilemma is the subject of oil. Don't want to open that can of worms, but

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...journal-filters-fluids-oil-changes-etc.86135/

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