Stage 2 turbos only

[Kmx99]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on just throwing on the stage 2 or 3 turbos only (custom tune of course) with all the factory intake, and exhaust first. Seams like for $3k you would have bigger initial gains, and maybe they would run a bit cooler temps than the factory setup. I know in the long run your getting a lot of performance out of the intake, intercooler, charge pipes, and turbo back exhaust, especially added with the bigger turbos. But to just swap out the bigger snails and not have to worry about chasing exhaust tone, Or the few small gains, it seams like it would be a bigger bang for the buck. What’s everyone’s thoughts on this. And yes…….flame suit is on. LoL.

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[RIDE]

This ones a thinker and therefore above my pay grade. On the one hand, the turbo would theoretically suck more air faster but also you’d be forcing an equal volume of exhaust. Personally, I see your bottleneck being the exhaust and b/c of that heat would be enemy #1. Me personally, I’d watch EGT’s and cylinder temps like a hawk and even write a limiter in the tune program for it with a pretty big pad cuz if it gets overcooked, it’d happen quick. Faster than you could pull your foot off the pedal. It may take some of your fun away, but it might keep you from scorching the bottom end of your rear cylinders. All this is to say, I’m not sure I’d chance it without upgrading your pipe diameters at turbo install. I’d updgrade the intercooler at same time.

 

[Kmx99]

Thanks for the response, I agree heat will not be our friend here. I know chasing that will start to get expensive with all the bolt on stuff. I think I’ll start with a drop in filter, chop the factory muffler and put in a flow through resonator at the start with the turbos, and get it on a Dyno with a tuner and watch heat from their to see what it does.

 

[Ducati1098]

It would be a complete waste without at least changing the intercooler.
And either way you're going to need to change the port injectors for the turbos also.
I'm running stage 3 turbos, but I have pretty much every bolt on possible.

 

[CarGuy]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on just throwing on the stage 2 or 3 turbos only (custom tune of course) with all the factory intake, and exhaust first. Seams like for $3k you would have bigger initial gains, and maybe they would run a bit cooler temps than the factory setup. I know in the long run your getting a lot of performance out of the intake, intercooler, charge pipes, and turbo back exhaust, especially added with the bigger turbos. But to just swap out the bigger snails and not have to worry about chasing exhaust tone, Or the few small gains, it seams like it would be a bigger bang for the buck. What’s everyone’s thoughts on this. And yes…….flame suit is on. LoL.

Engines are giant air pumps. If you install larger turbos, they will need other mods to suck/blow properly. My opinion would be to change charge pipes, exhaust and intercooler, along with the aforementioned tune.

 

[Kmx99]

Roger that, I saw your tests/review on the intercooler you talked about Ducati1098, I figured that would be on the first to do when I went down the bolt-on list. You have done a lot of extensive testing for the community, I appreciate all the posts you’ve done, I believe I’ve been through most of them now. I’m at about 4800’ above sea level and typically only go up from here, we need all the air density we can get. That was the thoughts on the bigger turbos first, get it out of the way. I had the 2.3 in a ranger that was impressive, but I have been a jeep guy for years. I love my diesel JLURD, but I think I’m going to have a lot more fun with this motor than either of those.

 

[RIDE]

It would be a complete waste without at least changing the intercooler.
And either way you're going to need to change the port injectors for the turbos also.
I'm running stage 3 turbos, but I have pretty much every bolt on possible.

I fully agree with this. Remember the exhaust heat will overflow to forced induction and would spiral upward. Don’t overlook the importance of cooling the air coming in.

 

[RIDE]

Another concern you might think about is risk of overcooking the turbo itself. I’m not sure how the 2.7 turbo oil line is mapped so maybe doesn’t apply but my diesel forum talked about an overcooked turbo blowing both its bearing and impeller, sending shrapnel into the crankcase. Guess it caused a chain reaction of failures.

 

[mpeugeot]

It would be a complete waste without at least changing the intercooler.
And either way you're going to need to change the port injectors for the turbos also.
I'm running stage 3 turbos, but I have pretty much every bolt on possible.

Actually, I disagree, unless the intercooler is an actual flow restriction, simply replacing the turbos might not be a complete waste.

The larger turbos are likely to move more air with less heat, making the efficiency of the intercooler less critical, unless it is a significant flow restriction.

If anything, the exhaust side of the equation is more important than the intake side of the equation. Even so, the exhaust flow restriction of the turbine is the greatest flow restriction and likely the greatest limiter of exhaust flow.

My personal opinion, is that the exhaust post turbine is the biggest opportunity to gain power, followed by the turbo, followed by the intake tract. I could be wrong, but that was always my experience.

 

[Ducati1098]

Actually, I disagree, unless the intercooler is an actual flow restriction, simply replacing the turbos might not be a complete waste.

The larger turbos are likely to move more air with less heat, making the efficiency of the intercooler less critical, unless it is a significant flow restriction.

If anything, the exhaust side of the equation is more important than the intake side of the equation. Even so, the exhaust flow restriction of the turbine is the greatest flow restriction and likely the greatest limiter of exhaust flow.

My personal opinion, is that the exhaust post turbine is the biggest opportunity to gain power, followed by the turbo, followed by the intake tract. I could be wrong, but that was always my experience.

They move more air, but they don’t keep the charge air temperatures down. The more air you compress, the hotter it gets. The factory intercooler is hardly adequate at stock boost levels, anything over that and it’ll just have extreme heat soak making little difference how much more air a bigger turbo is moving.

Either way, you could be right. It’s hard to say without seeing how each one would be affected by just replacing the turbos alone since nobody has done that on this platform.

I don’t have any before/after of my own exhaust, but dyno data I’ve seen on another Bronco running higher than stock boost levels shows adding downpipes didn’t really make much of a difference at all. Which makes me think the exhaust isn’t really that restrictive to begin with, or at least not before the muffler.
Both the stage 2 and 3 use stock turbine wheels, just a larger compressor wheel.

 

[mpeugeot]

They move more air, but they don’t keep the charge air temperatures down. The more air you compress, the hotter it gets. The factory intercooler is hardly adequate at stock boost levels, anything over that and it’ll just have extreme heat soak making little difference how much more air a bigger turbo is moving.

Either way, you could be right. It’s hard to say without seeing how each one would be affected by just replacing the turbos alone since nobody has done that on this platform.

I don’t have any before/after of my own exhaust, but dyno data I’ve seen on another Bronco running higher than stock boost levels shows adding downpipes didn’t really make much of a difference at all. Which makes me think the exhaust isn’t really that restrictive to begin with, or at least not before the muffler.
Both the stage 2 and 3 use stock turbine wheels, just a larger compressor wheel.

Boost levels only represent the restriction in the system and not the flow in CFM which really matters. Bigger turbos move more air with less boost (a lower pressure ratio), look at the compressor maps to see the difference.

The stock muffler is surprisingly restrictive, based on removing it and running the Flowmaster Outlaw High Clearance Exhaust, it seems to perform a bit better than with the exhaust.

 

[Ducati1098]

Boost levels only represent the restriction in the system and not the flow in CFM which really matters. Bigger turbos move more air with less boost (a lower pressure ratio), look at the compressor maps to see the difference.

The stock muffler is surprisingly restrictive, based on removing it and running the Flowmaster Outlaw High Clearance Exhaust, it seems to perform a bit better than with the exhaust.

I understand that. But I don’t know, I still don’t see the benefit of spending $4k on upgraded turbos only to have 50-60 degree higher charge air temperatures. It’s just limiting the potential of them in exchange for not spending a little more money.
Would they make more power? Sure. But if I’m spending that kind of money, I want them making as much power as possible.

But maybe that’s just my go big or go home mentality which is why I said it’s a waste
Either way, I do agree that the exhaust should be replaced also to mitigate as much restriction as possible.

To me it’s like spending a ton of money on suspension and tires and not upgrading your steering rack lol

 

[Dlrsavannah]

Adding a bigger turbo is going to require a bigger intercooler so the turbo doesn't get heatsoaked. Even with the factory turbo you'd need the same. It's also going to need a tune and an open exhaust. A bigger downpipe will help as well. I'm not sure who does tuning for the Bronco. I drove a modified Focus St, boy that was a small fun car to drive with the extra torque.

 

[RIDE]

I understand that. But I don’t know, I still don’t see the benefit of spending $4k on upgraded turbos only to have 50-60 degree higher charge air temperatures. It’s just limiting the potential of them in exchange for not spending a little more money.
Would they make more power? Sure. But if I’m spending that kind of money, I want them making as much power as possible.

But maybe that’s just my go big or go home mentality which is why I said it’s a waste
Either way, I do agree that the exhaust should be replaced also to mitigate as much restriction as possible.

To me it’s like spending a ton of money on suspension and tires and not upgrading your steering rack lol

Agree with this mindset, but with different motivation. Mine’s more along lines of why spend that much to risk pulling years off your engine for a few horses when if done right with a bit more investment you can have sizable gains with limited risk.

 

[mpeugeot]

I understand that. But I don’t know, I still don’t see the benefit of spending $4k on upgraded turbos only to have 50-60 degree higher charge air temperatures. It’s just limiting the potential of them in exchange for not spending a little more money.
Would they make more power? Sure. But if I’m spending that kind of money, I want them making as much power as possible.

But maybe that’s just my go big or go home mentality which is why I said it’s a waste
Either way, I do agree that the exhaust should be replaced also to mitigate as much restriction as possible.

To me it’s like spending a ton of money on suspension and tires and not upgrading your steering rack lol

Don't get me wrong, I think that it's far better to do it the right way. The right way optimizes the entire system, right down to cam lift, duration, and overlap. Anyone planning to change cams?

Adding a bigger turbo is going to require a bigger intercooler so the turbo doesn't get heatsoaked. Even with the factory turbo you'd need the same. It's also going to need a tune and an open exhaust. A bigger downpipe will help as well. I'm not sure who does tuning for the Bronco. I drove a modified Focus St, boy that was a small fun car to drive with the extra torque.

That’s not how it works. A bigger turbo isn't going to increase heat. A bigger turbo is typically less restrictive on the exhaust side and typically has a larger compressor.

The larger compressor will flow more air at a given pressure ratio, thus at the same boost level will put less heat into the air flowing through the intercooler.

A larger turbine will flow more exhaust gas requiring less psi of boost to achieve the same airflow. Because there is less resistance to airflow in the system overall.

Intercooler restrictions are measured by the pressure drop across the intercooler at a given CFM. Anything more than a 1.5psi pressure drop usually is a sign of the intercooler being inadequately sized for the application. Of course, you want to maximize the temperature difference between the inlet and the outlet of a given sized unit to reflect the efficiency of the intercooler (and this is where many aftermarket intercoolers shine).

Once again, just a few things I learned when I owned a dyno and drinking margaritas with my friend Corky Bell.

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