Kicker Key 200.4 Done Correctly

[AZCoyote]

If you disable the EQ in Forscan, that option goes away in Sync entirely.

I’ve seen that. That’s as definitely “off” as a feature can be.

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[MOBRONCO]

I think I need to send out a “Copper Alert”.

There is a collective of electrical engineering students gathered around a water cooler somewhere who haven’t noticed that you’ve gone missing.

In the interest of getting you to NOT dilute the usefulness of this thread further, you WIN the argument about how varying frequency will alter impedance. It doesn’t matter in how reality works with attaching two 4 ohm speakers in parallel to a 4 ohm stable amp thus driving that amp at 2 ohms…. But you are correct. The impedance with rise and fall based upon the frequency input.

to everyone who slogs this far into the thread, please give the bi-amp setup a try. It is worth your time. It alleviates the unsupported load on the Key and makes an enormous change in volume and quality of the front sound stage.

You may want to do the EQ setting in forscan based upon what MOBRIDGE posted from his RTA experiments. That work was brilliant. He clearly took his Asperger’s medicine that day.

I guess when you are shown to be incorrect you have to resort to childish insults like insinuating someone is autistic.

The entire premise of this thread is based on flawed information. You are the one insinuating that Ford engineers, the makers of the harnesses for the Bronco, and every manufacturer of an audio system with a crossover has it wrong while you have stumbled across the “truth”.

People can use the wiring as intended with most speakers and have zero issues, simply put a 6.5 inch mid-woofer and a 3 or 4 inch midrange with an inline capacitor won’t cause any issues with the Kicker Key.

Millions of home audio speakers and car audio systems have done this for decades upon decades. Two identical drivers would cause the issues you mentioned with overheating.

 

[YellaHEL940]

The 80's and 90's were fun times in the car audio world. I had a 80 model Trans-Am with a Pioneer cassette player and Pioneer speakers all around and a big 10 channel EQ/Amp. I never entered a sound off but we went to a few of them in the DFW metroplex. I had a buddy that I helped that got REALLY into it. He had a Mitsubishi Eclipse we put 8 twelves in with Alpine and Fosgate electronics. Damn that thing was loud. Turned up about half way it literally shook the dash.

It’s a fun time now. I am in the middle of a big build with and 8/10 Mosconi DSP/ focal for the front stage and rears And 2 JL 10’s in a tailgate box with a JL 1000watt amp. Will be all active system that will be infinitely tunable. Will have one tune for tops on and one for tops off.
Should sound ok.

 

[AZCoyote]

I guess when you are shown to be incorrect you have to resort to childish insults like insinuating someone is autistic.

The entire premise of this thread is based on flawed information. You are the one insinuating that Ford engineers, the makers of the harnesses for the Bronco, and every manufacturer of an audio system with a crossover has it wrong while you have stumbled across the “truth”.

People can use the wiring as intended with most speakers and have zero issues, simply put a 6.5 inch mid-woofer and a 3 or 4 inch midrange with an inline capacitor won’t cause any issues with the Kicker Key.

Millions of home audio speakers and car audio systems have done this for decades upon decades. Two identical drivers would cause the issues you mentioned with overheating.

Kimosabi, you came in here spouting about loads and resistance and looking for some kind of validation we just cannot give you.

I said nothing about Ford at any time. The THIRD PARTY harnesses I specifically referred to allow plug and play of a 4 channel amp in between the factory harness and speakers. In the case of how they are implemented specifically with the key 200.4, it is done wrong. Period. The front stage of the Bronco is running a 2 ohm load to the factory amp before upgrade. People who sell the harnesses kept that design but have mated it to an amp that doesn’t do 2 ohm.

The wiring choice absolutely does affect the Key and you don’t know what you are talking about.

Do you make and sell these crap Bronco harnesses? It would be interesting if you defending your product rather than the incessant Rainman ranting about caps, resistance, and frequency. Whether your issue is ADD, ADHD, Asperger’s or full blown autism, you’ve come here to pick a bone. Your info on the EQ is massively helpful and brilliantly done work. Your opinions on everything ohms related is hot trash that does nothing to help anyone.

All of my assertions on how the Key 200.4 should not be run at 2 ohms are correct. RTFM.

My statement that the THIRD PARTY harnesses are wrongly wired for a Key 200.4 are correct. RTFM

 

[RoLyMa27]

It’s a fun time now. I am in the middle of a big build with and 8/10 Mosconi DSP/ focal for the front stage and rears And 2 JL 10’s in a tailgate box with a JL 1000watt amp. Will be all active system that will be infinitely tunable. Will have one tune for tops on and one for tops off.
Should sound ok.

True. Let's just say it's a different kind of fun when you are 20 versus 58.

 

[AZCoyote]

It’s a fun time now. I am in the middle of a big build with and 8/10 Mosconi DSP/ focal for the front stage and rears And 2 JL 10’s in a tailgate box with a JL 1000watt amp. Will be all active system that will be infinitely tunable. Will have one tune for tops on and one for tops off.
Should sound ok.

That is going to sound fantastic!

 

[YellaHEL940]

True. Let's just say it's a different kind of fun when you are 20 versus 58.

For sure. The fun back then was how much bass could we make with the flea market subs and amps for next to no money. I still have some of my Linear Power amps and Soundstream stuff but just not good when you are burying amps behind interior panels.
Thinking of buying an old truck or jeep and using them in that

 

[Brian_B]

All of my assertions on how the Key 200.4 should not be run at 2 ohms are correct. RTFM.

My statement that the THIRD PARTY harnesses are wrongly wired for a Key 200.4 are correct. RTFM

All of this is true.

But that doesn't really invalidate all those installs that are running 2 Ohm.

I mean, if it sounds good to the owner - that's the only metric that matters, as they are the ones paying for it. Not me or you.

Nice to throw out the PSA of Hey, you might be able to get a bit better sound out of it if you tweak it - which is great. And hey, you might break your amp if you aren't careful. And there have been folks dissatisfied with the Key performance around here, probably for this very reason.

But I wouldn't go so far as to call those who are satisfied with it as-is, wrong, or that Bi-Amp is the only way to wire a 200.4 and make it work. A lot of that is very subjective. Someone who has pod upgrades in the rear may not want to run a bi-amped front channel, for instance.

 

[AZCoyote]

All of this is true.

But that doesn't really invalidate all those installs that are running 2 Ohm.

I mean, if it sounds good to the owner - that's the only metric that matters, as they are the ones paying for it. Not me or you.

Nice to throw out the PSA of Hey, you might be able to get a bit better sound out of it if you tweak it - which is great. And hey, you might break your amp if you aren't careful. And there have been folks dissatisfied with the Key performance around here, probably for this very reason.

But I wouldn't go so far as to call those who are satisfied with it as-is, wrong, or that Bi-Amp is the only way to wire a 200.4 and make it work. A lot of that is very subjective. Someone who has pod upgrades in the rear may not want to run a bi-amped front channel, for instance.

some things are black-and-white.

Running a 4 ohm stable amp at two ohms is wrong. You also have the option to wire your amp to your headlights if you want. It’s not gonna work better that way. You could also use a much heavier weight oil in your engine if you chose. It’s not gonna work better that way. I never said people don’t have the option to choose. I am being declarative that wired to a two ohm load is wrong because it is.

Invalidate? Not the word I would use. Help my fellow kicker key 200 owners not damaged their equipment? Absolutely. There’s a reason why so many people have posted about having problems with their key. The wiring is absolutely a factor there. My other intention is helping people get the most out of their equipment so they enjoy it. I didn’t use the word “magnitude” unintentionally. The improvement with bi-amp is a magnitude of order better than using the wrongly wired, third-party harness.

 

[Brian_B]

 

[MOBRONCO]

Kimosabi, you came in here spouting about loads and resistance and looking for some kind of validation we just cannot give you.

I said nothing about Ford at any time. The THIRD PARTY harnesses I specifically referred to allow plug and play of a 4 channel amp in between the factory harness and speakers. In the case of how they are implemented specifically with the key 200.4, it is done wrong. Period. The front stage of the Bronco is running a 2 ohm load to the factory amp before upgrade. People who sell the harnesses kept that design but have mated it to an amp that doesn’t do 2 ohm.

The wiring choice absolutely does affect the Key and you don’t know what you are talking about.

Do you make and sell these crap Bronco harnesses? It would be interesting if you defending your product rather than the incessant Rainman ranting about caps, resistance, and frequency. Whether your issue is ADD, ADHD, Asperger’s or full blown autism, you’ve come here to pick a bone. Your info on the EQ is massively helpful and brilliantly done work. Your opinions on everything ohms related is hot trash that does nothing to help anyone.

All of my assertions on how the Key 200.4 should not be run at 2 ohms are correct. RTFM.

My statement that the THIRD PARTY harnesses are wrongly wired for a Key 200.4 are correct. RTFM

Keep doubling down…

Yes, the Kicker Key isn’t designed to run with a 2 ohm load.

According to your logic, you are still running your dash speakers and rear channels at 2 ohms since it has a 4 ohm midrange and a separate 4 ohm tweeter. That’s what a Coaxial speaker is, two separate speakers wired together in parallel to reproduce a wide range of sound.

Yet somehow it works right? There’s a fancy capacitor on your Alpine speakers doing exactly what I am describing.

 

[AZCoyote]

Keep doubling down…

Yes, the Kicker Key isn’t designed to run with a 2 ohm load.

According to your logic, you are still running your dash speakers and rear channels at 2 ohms since it has a 4 ohm midrange and a separate 4 ohm tweeter. That’s what a Coaxial speaker is, two separate speakers wired together in parallel to reproduce a wide range of sound.

Yet somehow it works right? There’s a fancy capacitor on your Alpine speakers doing exactly what I am describing.

No. You just have no ability to comprehend written English.

there is no double down. The facts remain unchanged. The statements are still the same.

You asserted in the prior thread that the kick panel wired to the dash speaker would still be 4 ohms because of a cap. It is not. It is two ohms. That load is not supported by the Key.

You just made my point. The dash speaker is 4 ohms. The kick is 4 ohms. Together you get 2 ohms. The Key does not support two ohms.

You should get a hobby rather than yelling esoteric immaterial BS on people’s threads. Your EQ info was useful. Thanks for that. Your take on the rest makes me wonder if you’ve sustained a recent head injury.

So to recap. The Key 200.4 is not 2 ohm stable.

Third party harnesses incorrectly wire the dash and kick panel for a 2 ohm load.

anyone running this way is beating the amp which will shorten its life. They are also losing power, volume, and sound quality.

feel free to go start a thread about caps and variable resistance as affected by frequency.

All you are doing here is being a troll.

 

[MOBRONCO]

No. You just have no ability to comprehend written English.

there is no double down. The facts remain unchanged. The statements are still the same.

You asserted in the prior thread that the kick panel wired to the dash speaker would still be 4 ohms because of a cap. It is not. It is two ohms. That load is not supported by the Key.

You just made my point. The dash speaker is 4 ohms. The kick is 4 ohms. Together you get 2 ohms. The Key does not support two ohms.

You should get a hobby rather than yelling esoteric immaterial BS on people’s threads. Your EQ info was useful. Thanks for that. Your take on the rest makes me wonder if you’ve sustained a recent head injury.

So to recap. The Key 200.4 is not 2 ohm stable.

Third party harnesses incorrectly wire the dash and kick panel for a 2 ohm load.

anyone running this way is beating the amp which will shorten its life. They are also losing power, volume, and sound quality.

feel free to go start a thread about caps and variable resistance as affected by frequency.

All you are doing here is being a troll.

I’ll try one more time.

You have Alpine coaxial speakers in your dash, right?

That coax consists of a 4 ohm 4 inch midrange speaker and a 4 ohm tweeter. You have two 4 ohm speakers wired in parallel. Why isn’t your 4 ohm stable amp overheating?

 

[AZCoyote]

I’ll try one more time.

You have Alpine coaxial speakers in your dash, right?

That coax consists of a 4 ohm 4 inch midrange speaker and a 4 ohm tweeter. You have two 4 ohm speakers wired in parallel. Why isn’t your 4 ohm stable amp overheating?

You seriously need help. You’ve reached full derangement level.

I’ve already stated I am using my amp in bi-amp mode. I have also stated my speakers are all 4 ohms. My amp is running at 4 ohms like it should be. The basis of the thread is to tell everyone they should also be running at 4 ohms. What is your reason for being here again?

This is now and always has been about harnesses incorrectly wiring the dash to kick panel. That will net a 2 ohm load. The amp doesn’t support that as you finally admitted.

The cap on the coaxial acting as a bass blocker has absolutely no importance here. You want me to confirm that a coaxial speaker is still seen as 4 ohms despite having a tweeter piggybacked on the woofer? Yeah, man. Totally. You win…. What exactly? This isn’t about the cap on coaxials. It’s about the harness wiring kick panels to dash’s and producing a 2 ohm load that the Key cannot run.

You need a better purpose. You’ve done nothing to help here what with all your tilting at windmills.

 

[MOBRONCO]

You seriously need help. You’ve reached full derangement level.

I’ve already stated I am using my amp in bi-amp mode. I have also stated my speakers are all 4 ohms. My amp is running at 4 ohms like it should be. The basis of the thread is to tell everyone they should also be running at 4 ohms. What is your reason for being here again?

This is now and always has been about harnesses incorrectly wiring the dash to kick panel. That will net a 2 ohm load. The amp doesn’t support that as you finally admitted.

The cap on the coaxial acting as a bass blocker has absolutely no importance here. You want me to confirm that a coaxial speaker is still seen as 4 ohms despite having a tweeter piggybacked on the woofer? Yeah, man. Totally. You win…. What exactly? This isn’t about the cap on coaxials. It’s about the harness wiring kick panels to dash’s and producing a 2 ohm load that the Key cannot run.

You need a better purpose. You’ve done nothing to help here what with all your tilting at windmills.

I guess you just help some people.

Your biamp wiring to the dash is running two speakers in parallel, Alpine built a nice little crossover to make it one speaker on it, but at its heart it is two, 4 ohm speakers wired in parallel which at your insistence makes it two ohms and is wrong based on how electric circuits work when you factor in how speakers and crossovers actually work.

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