Hope this wasn't a Bronco owner

[EasternSierra]

I have a little more context to contribute.

The incident happened in Saline Valley near Death Valley. The area was BLM land until 1994 when it was made part of Death Valley National Park.

I've been to Saline Valley. The white area at the top of the aerial photo is a dry lake bed at the lowest point in the valley. It's usually dry, but it (and the surrounding area) can get muddy or even have standing water after rainy periods. It receives runoff from a sizeable area including some high mountains. Also, the last 9 months have been unusually rainy for the region.

I went on a different trail to the north of the dry lake a few decades ago. It was muddy to the point where sticky clay mud was sticking to my tires and making them larger and larger. Pretty soon my tires would have been stuck in the wheel wells. I had to get out, scrape off the mud with a shovel, and make a u-turn to get out safely. Fortunately that time the mud was shallow and I got enough traction with ordinary A/T tires.

Motor vehicle travel in the national park is only allowed on designated routes - paved roads, dirt roads, and some jeep trails. The article made it sound like he went off the road which is not allowed (other than pulling off to park or camp). However, looking at Google Earth (coordinates 36.693008 x -117.815153 degrees; use the 7/2016 imagery) it appears that the tower is less than 25 feet from the road.

The location is quite close to the 'dry' lake and appears to be just the sort of low-lying clay mud (with a crust of salt in that location) that I ran into not too far away, only much deeper. The driver could have been just trying to turn around, or he might have been driving illegally off-road. At this point we don't know. In any case, park users are responsible for knowing and following park rules.

Aside from that, this is a pretty remote area. The main road through the valley (Saline Valley Road) gets some use and probably somebody would be by in less than an hour in daytime. However, the minor side roads can get very little use and somebody might not have come by for days. I can see why the driver was desperate.

The tower was on concrete footings which had deteriorated badly. It'll need to be put back onto some sort of solid footings because otherwise the concentrated salt will wick up into the wood and gradually destroy it. There is (or was?) a post destroyed by salt in the museum at park headquarters.

Make of this what you will...

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[raqball]

I have a little more context to contribute.

The incident happened in Saline Valley near Death Valley. The area was BLM land until 1994 when it was made part of Death Valley National Park.

I've been to Saline Valley. The white area at the top of the aerial photo is a dry lake bed at the lowest point in the valley. It's usually dry, but it (and the surrounding area) can get muddy or even have standing water after rainy periods. It receives runoff from a sizeable area including some high mountains. Also, the last 9 months have been unusually rainy for the region.

I went on a different trail to the north of the dry lake a few decades ago. It was muddy to the point where sticky clay mud was sticking to my tires and making them larger and larger. Pretty soon my tires would have been stuck in the wheel wells. I had to get out, scrape off the mud with a shovel, and make a u-turn to get out safely. Fortunately that time the mud was shallow and I got enough traction with ordinary A/T tires.

Motor vehicle travel in the national park is only allowed on designated routes - paved roads, dirt roads, and some jeep trails. The article made it sound like he went off the road which is not allowed (other than pulling off to park or camp). However, looking at Google Earth (coordinates 36.693008 x -117.815153 degrees; use the 7/2016 imagery) it appears that the tower is less than 25 feet from the road.

The location is quite close to the 'dry' lake and appears to be just the sort of low-lying clay mud (with a crust of salt in that location) that I ran into not too far away, only much deeper. The driver could have been just trying to turn around, or he might have been driving illegally off-road. At this point we don't know. In any case, park users are responsible for knowing and following park rules.

Aside from that, this is a pretty remote area. The main road through the valley (Saline Valley Road) gets some use and probably somebody would be by in less than an hour in daytime. However, the minor side roads can get very little use and somebody might not have come by for days. I can see why the driver was desperate.

The tower was on concrete footings which had deteriorated badly. It'll need to be put back onto some sort of solid footings because otherwise the concentrated salt will wick up into the wood and gradually destroy it. There is (or was?) a post destroyed by salt in the museum at park headquarters.

Make of this what you will...

Thank you for a break down of the area in question..

I checked onX with the grid and it looks like Saline Valley Road is about 1 mile from that location.

You also make a few valid points:

• Motor vehicle travel in the national park is only allowed on designated routes - paved roads, dirt roads, and some jeep trails
• The article made it sound like he went off the road which is not allowed
• The main road through the valley (Saline Valley Road) gets some use and probably somebody would be by in less than an hour.
• In any case, park users are responsible for knowing and following park rules.

Sounds like the stuck guy just went out off-roading with little knowledge or care and with zero planning. Got stuck and was going to get himself unstuck at any cost to the environment as long as it saved his wallet or a short walk to the road and time spent waiting.

He could have walked the whopping 1 mile to the main road where you say someone would have came by in less than an hour. He could have educated himself on the trail conditions and he could have understood the area trail conditions and weather before heading out.

That's my take at least..

 

[Rydfree]

I agree with a previous poster somewhere in this thread that if he had just used his winch to stand the tower back up or reported it immediately, then we probably would never have even heard about it .

 

[EasternSierra]

Thank you for a break down of the area in question..

I checked onX with the grid and it looks like Saline Valley Road is about 1 mile from that location.

You also make a few valid points:

• Motor vehicle travel in the national park is only allowed on designated routes - paved roads, dirt roads, and some jeep trails
• The article made it sound like he went off the road which is not allowed
• The main road through the valley (Saline Valley Road) gets some use and probably somebody would be by in less than an hour.
• In any case, park users are responsible for knowing and following park rules.

Sounds like the stuck guy just went out off-roading with little knowledge or care and with zero planning. Got stuck and was going to get himself unstuck at any cost to the environment as long as it saved his wallet or a short walk to the road and time spent waiting.

He could have walked the whopping 1 mile to the main road where you say someone would have came by in less than an hour. He could have educated himself on the trail conditions and he could have understood the area trail conditions and weather before heading out.

That's my take at least..

I'm glad you found my info helpful.

Sure, it's only a one-mile walk to the main road. However, he was in deep mud and may have found it pretty hard or impossible to walk even a short distance. This is the kind of mud that make your boots taller and heavier with every single step. Ask me how I know...

That said, he should have just backed out once he got into a little bit of mud. It was only going to get worse the farther he went, which should have been obvious if he could read the terrain and understand how desert dry lakes work. I agree with the 6 P's you stated in an earlier post.

On the other hand, I cringe at some of my newbie mistakes decades ago...

 

[BigJim1957]

The guy turned himself in to authorities.

Individual Who Toppled Historic Tram Tower In Death Valley Comes Forward (nationalparkstraveler.org)

 

[raqball]

I'm glad you found my info helpful.

Sure, it's only a one-mile walk to the main road. However, he was in deep mud and may have found it pretty hard or impossible to walk even a short distance. This is the kind of mud that make your boots taller and heavier with every single step. Ask me how I know...

That said, he should have just backed out once he got into a little bit of mud. It was only going to get worse the farther he went, which should have been obvious if he could read the terrain and understand how desert dry lakes work. I agree with the 6 P's you stated in an earlier post.

On the other hand, I cringe at some of my newbie mistakes decades ago...

No doubt we have all made mistakes and learned from them.

I mainly go out solo and have been doing this since the mid 80's. Here is a short story on why I'll never go off-roading solo w/o a winch..

This was mid 80's so no cell phones etc.

I go out on a very narrow and muddy trail and at about 5 miles deep, the trail is blocked by numerous downed trees.. The sides of the trails are even more muddy and they are soft and deep. I attempt a 5,000 point turn around and at some point, I back up to much and my driver side rear wheel instantly sinks into the mud at the side of the trail. The entire rear wheel is swallowed up.

I spend about 2 hours trying to get unstuck. I am digging mud out with hands, stuffing branches and everything I can find to try and get traction. No dice!

I hike back out the 5'ish miles to the main road and start trying to hitchhike a ride back to civilization. I spend a few hours trying to get someone to stop but I am covered head to toe in mud and probably look like I had just murdered someone and buried them out in the forest..

Eventually someone stops and gives me a lift. The next day a buddy with a 4Runner dives me back out to the spot and we are able to get it out.

Never again.. If I had a winch and proper recovery gear, I would have been out and on my way in minutes. Now I do not hit dirt until I have a winch.

Yes I made a mistake and yes I learned from it..

Now I always go prepared, I check weather and trail conditions and when in doubt, I call the local Ranger station.

I bring recovery gear, communications and an inReach Mini in case I need communication when out of cell service. I could easily message someone with my grid and ask for help or for a tow to be dispatched.

Also, since I am solo, I do not attempt sketchy trails, trails where I do not feel comfortable or trails where I have a risk of getting stuck w/o suitable winching spots.

Having said that, my main issue in this thread is the attitude of others who claim they 'tread lightly' but their responses say otherwise.

My 1st post in this thread was questioning someone who basically said it's no big deal because the historical monument was small and fragile. Wait, what?

There is no doubt that this was either a new off-roader or someone who didn't care.. If it's a new off-roader then hopefully they learned a lesson. If it's someone who does not care then I hope they send him a repair and restoration bill that totals in the thousands..

The attitudes in this thread are disturbing but they do go to show why trails are being restricted and shut down all the time and on a daily basis..

 

[Bugkillah]

OMG just go out there and tip it back up already.

 

[EasternSierra]

Something I forgot to mention:

We're getting into the time of year when the southwestern deserts start to get really dangerous for dehydration and heat stroke. Saline Valley is almost as hot as Death Valley. Starting in May I wouldn't go out alone on any remote, little-used trail in the low-elevation deserts. Any group going out there should have gallons of water per person per day and a satellite beacon, among various other emergency items. You should be prepared for a breakdown or getting stuck, and staying longer than planned because s___ does happen.

When the really hot weather hits, the National Park Service recommends staying on paved roads and not hiking after early morning. Hours spent at 115 or 125 degrees with a broken vehicle, no shade, and no a/c is a recipe for heat stroke. People do die out there and the Park Service gets to haul out the corpses.

 

[mpeugeot]

Attitudes like yours are exactly why trails are being restricted and shut down. Shame on people who think this way!

The person only contacted them after it was reported on the news saying they were looking for the person responsible.

Anyways, I am 100% confident based on some of the responses in this thread that we have a lot of new 4 wheelers and /or wheelers who do not respect the land and will continue to abuse it as they see fit until it's shut down. Then they'll move on to the next trail and do the same.

Practice the 6 P's

Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

• Research the area trails before you go. If you are not finding the trail and weather info you need, call the local Ranger station. They are always more than happy to help.
• Know where any historical or national landmarks are and respect them.
• Bring proper recovery and emergency gear for the area and weather conditions. Traction boards, radio coms, emergency satellite communicator if out of cell service, winch, tree saver etc.
• If you don't have the proper recovery gear and there is not a suitable winching spot then call for a wrecker or a friend. Or in this dudes case, walk the whopping 1 mile to the roadway and flag someone down to assist.
• Respect the area and clean up after yourself

The attitudes in this thread does go to show why trails are being restricted and shut down all the time. If you ever wonder why a trail in your area was shut down, just read some of the responses in this thread and the reason why will become clear..

Show me where my attitude did anything to any trail. Shame on you for thinking that you are the arbiter of right and wrong. Shame on you for being the intolerant one in the thread. I'm sure you have never been one the wrong side of any discussion. It's people like you who are shutting down the trails.

 

[raqball]

It's people like you who are shutting down the trails.

Yeah, I respect trails and plan ahead.

You? Here is what you said about the damage to a historical monument

Oh, please, this was an unmarked piece of junk in the middle of nowhere that couldn't withstand a winch, much less be entrusted to support a tram of any kind, even for hamsters.

Yes your attitude towards off-roading and protecting the tails and lands are shameful and disgraceful.

Just because you think something is an "unmarked piece of junk" that should be allowed to be destroyed at your own whims and needs does not mean that it is and should be..

Attitudes like yours are why trails get shut down.

 

[Mdozier]

Some added info I found:

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/environment/death-valley-salt-tram/

hope the link works. My apologies if not.

 

[raqball]

Some added info I found:

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/environment/death-valley-salt-tram/

hope the link works. My apologies if not.

Thanks for the link and the video contained within..

I guess we now know why he decided to 'turn himself in' and 'take accountability for his actions'.. He was busted on tape, the news had reported it, and he knew the authorities were looking for him. At that point, he knew he was done for..

 

[Wathoff24]

Tower seems to be a stretch of the definition. Most people will read the headline and assume it was some huge structure that toppled over and thus completely ruined. When it appears to be maybe about 10 foot tall, mostly intact and probably will be able to be stood back up and restored. Doesn't make it right but context is necessary. Also a good reminder to never wheel alone.

Correct. It's not like it was some sort of National Monument or anything natural. It was equivalent to a 100 year old telephone pole or fence post. It was a low tower part of a salt mining tram.

 

[BlueBronco]

My 1st post in this thread was questioning someone who basically said it's no big deal because the historical monument was small and fragile. Wait, what?

Hmmm, your first post in this thread was in reference to mine but nowhere did I claim any of this things.
#reading_comprehension

 

[Rydfree]

Correct. It's not like it was some sort of National Monument or anything natural. It was equivalent to a 100 year old telephone pole or fence post. It was a low tower part of a salt mining tram.

SMH. What might not be of importance to you is of little consequence. What might be of importance to you , hopefully someone else doesn't trash thinking the same way .

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