Hi all

[Bronco 73]

Hi guys,

Any Bronco audio questions send them my way!
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Hello. I'm in the process of building a system in my 2022 Ford Bronco 4Dr Outer Banks non BO system and no sub. Any suggestions for an Amp Dsp?

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[speedfreak316]

Just hooked mine up today and wow what a difference but I don’t get the tune part at all how do I get ahold a base tune ? I think

 

[DrRoboto]

Hi All, I could use some help from the wisdom of the internet. I've just installed my MoBridge amp, as well as replacing all of the speakers with JL Audio C2-series speakers, and a new Alpine subwoofer that's a drop-in replacement for the factory subwoofer.

I'd like to measure speakers using Room Equalization Wizard (REW) on my laptop, so I need to get sound from the laptop to the car. Bluetooth is the only way I can find to do that, and I'm getting very audible choppiness here, like it's cutting in and out very fast, or losing bits.

What's going on?!?!!?

 

[Karl_in_Chicago]

Hi All, I could use some help from the wisdom of the internet. I've just installed my

2) I'd like to measure speakers using Room Equalization Wizard (REW) on my laptop, so I need to get sound from the laptop to the car. Bluetooth is the only way I can find to do that, and I'm getting very audible choppiness here, like it's cutting in and out very fast, or losing bits.

I don't understand this part. What do you mean when you say you "need to get sound from the laptop to the car"?

 

[DrRoboto]

I don't understand this part. What do you mean when you say you "need to get sound from the laptop to the car"?

The REW program generates test tones and frequency sweeps and pink noise, then records using a calibrated microphone. That software is on my laptop. How do I get the test sounds from the laptop to the car audio? At high enough quality for analysis? Bluetooth seems to be choppy or something.

 

[mjp2]

The REW program generates test tones and frequency sweeps and pink noise, then records using a calibrated microphone. That software is on my laptop. How do I get the test sounds from the laptop to the car audio? At high enough quality for analysis? Bluetooth seems to be choppy or something.

Download the Pink Noise Test Track from here: https://www.arcaudio.com/post/pink-noise-test-track

Copy it to a USB thumb drive, insert into the USB slot, select it as the input on the stereo, and put the track on loop/repeat.

I really need to make a thread for tuning the mObridge amp...

 

[Karl_in_Chicago]

The REW program generates test tones and frequency sweeps and pink noise, then records using a calibrated microphone. That software is on my laptop. How do I get the test sounds from the laptop to the car audio? At high enough quality for analysis? Bluetooth seems to be choppy or something.

I don't know about your specific setup so I could be barking up the wrong tree but a pink noise file on a USB stick always did OK by me. I thought you'd indicated you were already playing back audio in your system from the USB so this should work for you?

 

[DrRoboto]

Download the Pink Noise Test Track from here: https://www.arcaudio.com/post/pink-noise-test-track

Copy it to a USB thumb drive, insert into the USB slot, select it as the input on the stereo, and put the track on loop/repeat.

I really need to make a thread for tuning the mObridge amp...

Awesome. Thank you. That unblocked me. I'm actively working on tuning it up this weekend, so if you started a thread on tuning up a MoBridge amp, I'd ask questions and report on my results, and that could be useful for others!

 

[mObridge]

Hi All, I could use some help from the wisdom of the internet. I've just installed my MoBridge amp, as well as replacing all of the speakers with JL Audio C2-series speakers, and a new Alpine subwoofer that's a drop-in replacement for the factory subwoofer.

I'd like to measure speakers using Room Equalization Wizard (REW) on my laptop, so I need to get sound from the laptop to the car. Bluetooth is the only way I can find to do that, and I'm getting very audible choppiness here, like it's cutting in and out very fast, or losing bits.

What's going on?!?!!?

Sine sweeps and pink noise are both acceptable ways to RTA tune a car DSP. The main advantage is that sine sweeps will also give you phase measurements. However our DSP currently does not have the ability to correct for phase. That being said there are many cars that have won car audio competitions without any phase corrections (including a Porsche with our K2 amp in it!). Im not going to say phase correction isn't important however you can still get an absolutely fantastic sounding system without correcting for it. So with that being said there is virtually no advantage in this application using sine sweeps over pink noise to tune. Pink noise is a much easier process so I would highly recommend the USB pink noise file approach.

Now on the topic of the sound coming from the C2s. In my opinion I have never been impressed with the sound coming from these speakers, an RTA tune will improve them of course however an untuned system with something from Morel or Audio frog sounds better at the same price and even better tuned!

If you can muster the effort to RTA tune you will see a big improvement in the C2s as it wont be the amplifier introducing this distortion unless you are listening at levels close to clipping. We introduce 1% THD at rated power and less than 0.1% THD at levels less than this. Speakers and your ears will be adding much more distortion than this.

If you are a first time REW user, make sure you have your settings to 1/3 octave RTA and smoothing, start with a small number of points (3-5 per channel) and target large peaks. It will make life much easier

 

[eduard4us]

Sine sweeps and pink noise are both acceptable ways to RTA tune a car DSP. The main advantage is that sine sweeps will also give you phase measurements. However our DSP currently does not have the ability to correct for phase. That being said there are many cars that have won car audio competitions without any phase corrections (including a Porsche with our K2 amp in it!). Im not going to say phase correction isn't important however you can still get an absolutely fantastic sounding system without correcting for it. So with that being said there is virtually no advantage in this application using sine sweeps over pink noise to tune. Pink noise is a much easier process so I would highly recommend the USB pink noise file approach.

Now on the topic of the sound coming from the C2s. In my opinion I have never been impressed with the sound coming from these speakers, an RTA tune will improve them of course however an untuned system with something from Morel or Audio frog sounds better at the same price and even better tuned!

If you can muster the effort to RTA tune you will see a big improvement in the C2s as it wont be the amplifier introducing this distortion unless you are listening at levels close to clipping. We introduce 1% THD at rated power and less than 0.1% THD at levels less than this. Speakers and your ears will be adding much more distortion than this.

If you are a first time REW user, make sure you have your settings to 1/3 octave RTA and smoothing, start with a small number of points (3-5 per channel) and target large peaks. It will make life much easier

@DrRoboto to add to Fraser’s inputs, I would watch on YouTube Socket’s videos on how to tune a DSP with REW.
This is his playlist:

I tuned the K2 with my Mac streaming into the Bronco, there is no need for a stick with sines or pink noise, REW will do everything for you.

Here to help with my experience of over two years with K2, don’t hesitate to contact me

 

[DrRoboto]

@DrRoboto to add to Fraser’s inputs, I would watch on YouTube Socket’s videos on how to tune a DSP with REW.
This is his playlist:

I tuned the K2 with my Mac streaming into the Bronco, there is no need for a stick with sines or pink noise, REW will do everything for you.

Here to help with my experience of over two years with K2, don’t hesitate to contact me

@mObridge @eduard4us Thanks for the info, I'll follow those threads!

Here's a report on current progress:
1) Install and wire up system, turn it on hurrah! It works! sounds do much better! crank it up!
2) why is it sounding really distorted and weird? uh oh
3) debug: I have burned out my three dashboard speakers.
4) ok, NOW I'll go through and set limiters, change the dB adjustment on various channels, and set it up so it doesn't blow speakers. I pulled out the damaged speakers (they were actually physically seized, the cones would not move), set all of the tune to flat, 0dB. I don't have the right or left dash speakers right now, but honestly it still sounds pretty good with just the kickers and the rears and the sub.

Now I have an opportunity to take a breath, try some tunes, do some reading, think it through some more, and then replace the speakers and set up up nicely.

 

[mObridge]

@mObridge @eduard4us Thanks for the info, I'll follow those threads!

Here's a report on current progress:
1) Install and wire up system, turn it on hurrah! It works! sounds do much better! crank it up!
2) why is it sounding really distorted and weird? uh oh
3) debug: I have burned out my three dashboard speakers.
4) ok, NOW I'll go through and set limiters, change the dB adjustment on various channels, and set it up so it doesn't blow speakers. I pulled out the damaged speakers (they were actually physically seized, the cones would not move), set all of the tune to flat, 0dB. I don't have the right or left dash speakers right now, but honestly it still sounds pretty good with just the kickers and the rears and the sub.

Now I have an opportunity to take a breath, try some tunes, do some reading, think it through some more, and then replace the speakers and set up up nicely.

The C2s are only rated to 25w RMS so you'll definitely need to be careful! We push out 70.
Also make sure that you have a high pass filter set at atleast 350hz on those dash speakers or you'll definitely blow them

 

[DrRoboto]

@DrRoboto to add to Fraser’s inputs, I would watch on YouTube Socket’s videos on how to tune a DSP with REW.
This is his playlist:

I tuned the K2 with my Mac streaming into the Bronco, there is no need for a stick with sines or pink noise, REW will do everything for you.

Here to help with my experience of over two years with K2, don’t hesitate to contact me

@eduard4us how did you get your mac streaming into your Bronco? Was it just Bluetooth? I found the sound to be very choppy for some reason when connecting via bluetooth, so I have been using the USB stick.

I have been going through Socket's excellent REW tutorial, specifically looking for the step where an EQ curve is calculated - and sure enough REW will auto-generate a series of filters to get the speaker response to match the target curve. But I cannot find a way to get that into the mObridge software. @mObridge is there any way to import filter settings? I see that saved files are in a *.rax file, is there a conversion from *.txt files from REW have the list of filters and filter settings, into the *.rax file? If not, how do you recommend setting the filters up to match target curves?

 

[eduard4us]

@eduard4us how did you get your mac streaming into your Bronco? Was it just Bluetooth? I found the sound to be very choppy for some reason when connecting via bluetooth, so I have been using the USB stick.

I have been going through Socket's excellent REW tutorial, specifically looking for the step where an EQ curve is calculated - and sure enough REW will auto-generate a series of filters to get the speaker response to match the target curve. But I cannot find a way to get that into the mObridge software. @mObridge is there any way to import filter settings? I see that saved files are in a *.rax file, is there a conversion from *.txt files from REW have the list of filters and filter settings, into the *.rax file? If not, how do you recommend setting the filters up to match target curves?

I always connected my Mac to the car via Bluetooth and I had no problem with that.
You can also try a USB-C cable.

If you want to generate electricity individual speaker curves based on a house curve, I would suggest to use TUN4 software from JL, I use it in demo mode and generate my speaker curves based on my house curve.

There are only few DSPs that have an integration with REW and you can import the EQ filters in. mObridge unfortunately does not have that feature and you will have to enter them manually.

 

[DrRoboto]

I always connected my Mac to the car via Bluetooth and I had no problem with that.
You can also try a USB-C cable.

If you want to generate electricity individual speaker curves based on a house curve, I would suggest to use TUN4 software from JL, I use it in demo mode and generate my speaker curves based on my house curve.

There are only few DSPs that have an integration with REW and you can import the EQ filters in. mObridge unfortunately does not have that feature and you will have to enter them manually.

alright - I have gone through and done an EQ for a single speaker, measuring in REW and creating some filters that it predicts should get the measured curve close to the target curve, then entering those into the mObridge software. Then I re-measured, and... it doesn't look much different. Even with some really significant magnitude, some major attenuation, it seems to only do 1/4 of what I was trying to get it to do. I'm getting a bit frustrated...

I always connected my Mac to the car via Bluetooth and I had no problem with that.
You can also try a USB-C cable.

If you want to generate electricity individual speaker curves based on a house curve, I would suggest to use TUN4 software from JL, I use it in demo mode and generate my speaker curves based on my house curve.

There are only few DSPs that have an integration with REW and you can import the EQ filters in. mObridge unfortunately does not have that feature and you will have to enter them manually.

Update: I think using REW and calculating correction curves and typing the calcualted filters into the mObridge software is not really the way to go. I didn't get good results that way. It's more about just having a target curve as a visual goal, and then adjusting various EQ points live via the mObridge graphical interface until the line in REW RTA gets kinda close.

I've done that a few times, and it's really interesting how _far_ from flat the base speaker curves are. I do have very basic speakers in there, I put in the Alpine S2-S40C component speakers in the dash because they are very cheap, I could test things out. I still have the JL C2-650X in the kick panels. They are rather egregious - extremely boomy and bass-heavy. Maybe it's the location, maybe I blew the tweeters, maybe they're actually that way?

So - I don't feel like I was getting as close to the target curves as I'd like, but I was able to improve things quite a lot. And, of course, setting the timing and the levels is a rather significantly useful starting point.

Tuning a few different times, fiddling, things sound different each time; so I don't feel like I'm getting close to ideal. My current hypothesis is that it'll take better speakers that have flatter response curves to get there. I can chip away at that over time!

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