EPA deregulation to kill Auto Start Stop (ASS)?

[Lcubed]

Seems to me that they were looking for a specific result in not using the AC. I live in VA, my AC is NEVER off (12 months of the year it is on).

there are definitely large swathes of the country where AC is not required year round (Alaska, North Dakota, Idaho...)

i still remember the 'first' energy crisis back in the 70's where the gov't was advising that those old vehicles got better gas mileage at highway speeds with the windows up and AC turned on than with the windows down.

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[crzyhawk]

Data manipulation is why. You can cook all sorts of tests to make them show something you like that does not necessarily reflect how the average user actually uses something. They'll give you a cooked value, and then you'll wonder why you never see those sort of results.

 

[crzyhawk]

there are definitely large swathes of the country where AC is not required year round (Alaska, North Dakota, Idaho...)

i still remember the 'first' energy crisis back in the 70's where the gov't was advising that those old vehicles got better gas mileage at highway speeds with the windows up and AC turned on than with the windows down.

My Mustang pretty frequently sees a boost with the windows up and AC running. Aerodynamics plays a much bigger role in fuel economy than a gimmick like ASS. I can get my freeway mileage up to 24, 25 in the Bronco as long as I keep the speed between 60 and 65. It's almost unsafe to drive that slow these days however.

 

[Roger123]

there are definitely large swathes of the country where AC is not required year round (Alaska, North Dakota, Idaho...)

i still remember the 'first' energy crisis back in the 70's where the gov't was advising that those old vehicles got better gas mileage at highway speeds with the windows up and AC turned on than with the windows down.

Wonder if they ever use defrost in AK, ND, or ID?

From the owners manual:
Note: When maximum defrost is on, the air conditioning compressor may continue to operate even though you switch off the A/C.

 

[Lcubed]

Wonder if they ever use defrost in AK, ND, or ID?

From the owners manual:
Note: When maximum defrost is on, the air conditioning compressor may continue to operate even though you switch off the A/C.

depends on the humidity level.
(spent 30 years as a test engineer in the upper idaho panhandle)

 

[michelle227]

Wonder if they ever use defrost in AK, ND, or ID?

From the owners manual:
Note: When maximum defrost is on, the air conditioning compressor may continue to operate even though you switch off the A/C.

There you go again...bringing facts to the table.

 

[Roger123]

depends on the humidity level.
(spent 30 years as a test engineer in the upper idaho panhandle)

So you're saying that the AC may run year round? Or at least the 6 months of the year opposite of what we do in the south?

Bottom line is that the test wasn't done in a realistic manner, it was done to prove a bias that ASS works.

 

[MilesTeg]

Seems to me that they were looking for a specific result in not using the AC. I live in VA, my AC is NEVER off (12 months of the year it is on).

What were they trying to hide, why not run with the AC to get an actual result? Not having the AC on my opinion invalidates the test. Why not run both ways unless there was an agenda?

Run that "test" here in Aug and your savings is exactly 0% but that wouldn't "prove" the authors point would it?

Why do you think your particular, niche situation is relevant? Very few people live where they need A/C all the time. Most people live where A/C is needed in the summers and that's it. Roughly 1/4 of the year. And even during that 1/4 of the year its not needed all the time the vehicle is being used.

Moreover, even if your A/C is on doesn't mean it will prevent engine shutdown. It depends on how recently the compressor was run. It could be 120F but if the compressor just ran, your A/C will work just fine for a couple minutes at a stop light.

Using only numbers A/C would be a massive misrepresentation of the statistical norm. And to be very clear, ain't saying your situation isn't real -- only that it's not the norm.

 

[MilesTeg]

So you're saying that the AC may run year round? Or at least the 6 months of the year opposite of what we do in the south?

Bottom line is that the test wasn't done in a realistic manner, it was done to prove a bias that ASS works.

The compressor may run because it will remove moisture from the air. Cooling air releases the moisture in that air. (a big part of how a A/C works is removing moisture from the air, and it's why there will sometimes be a puddle of water under your car when the A/C is running). This will mostly happen as your vehicle is warming up to help that water not precipitate onto your windshield as fog.

This does not mean it "runs all year". It means it runs for a little bit cycling your cabin air IFF you live in a place with high relative humidity. If it ran a lot, it would, you know, cool down your car instead of letting it heat up.

And, as to the data presented, this fact is included in the tests that say "no A/C" since it's not a user selectable function.

 

[michelle227]

I find it laughable when West Coasters overlook how many people live in places where A/C compressors WILL be in use more than 300 days per year.

Just this week alone, I have a day where we crack 80 and within 36 hours are going to be under 20 with snow in the forecast. Everyone of those days gets A/C use in a vehicle, either for cooling or for defrost...

And don't get me started on Houston and the 95/95 for half of the year...with 95 being a cool afternoon come August and September...

What i also find hilarious is applauding the testament to shitty traffic control that is NYC. Time the lights better and you aren't idling much...

 

[Lcubed]

There you go again...bringing facts to the table.

So you're saying that the AC may run year round? Or at least the 6 months of the year opposite of what we do in the south?

Bottom line is that the test wasn't done in a realistic manner, it was done to prove a bias that ASS works.

more like three months of AC required for cooling. i've seen winter weather there in 9 of the possible 12 months. and summers are super low humidity

 

[MilesTeg]

So, I've brought actual data from (engineers & third parties) to the table that shows that ASS provides a significant benefit. Several folks dispute that, but I note they have provided exactly 0 data. Only anecdotes, contrived scenarios, and bald assertions.

The counter argument that ASS provides 0 or only "fractional percentages" of benefit to the average driver has been given exactly zero support.

When I first experienced it I very much fell in the camp of "that can't possibly save more than a few sips of gas". Then I looked at the data, looked at the data from my vehicle, and performed my own testing with my own vehicle and my mind changed.

Show me the data that supports your position (zero or effectively zero benefit for the average driver), and I will evaluate it like I do all data.

 

[crenca]

Why do you think your particular, niche situation is relevant? Very few people live where they need A/C all the time. Most people live where A/C is needed in the summers and that's it. Roughly 1/4 of the year. And even during that 1/4 of the year its not needed all the time the vehicle is being used.

Baloney!

Moreover, even if your A/C is on doesn't mean it will prevent engine shutdown. It depends on how recently the compressor was run. It could be 120F but if the compressor just ran, your A/C will work just fine for a couple minutes at a stop light.

Double helping of hot steaming baloney!

You keep preaching brother - the faithful say amen - and don't let the truth get in your way

 

[michelle227]

Do you not realize the compressor also sees use for defrosting?

Being in Maryland, I would expect you to know something about moisture dragged into the car from rain or snow...

 

[Lcubed]

Do you not realize the compressor also sees use for defrosting?

Being in Maryland, I would expect you to know something about moisture dragged into the car from rain or snow...

you do realize that the compressor doesn't run at full load at all times (and maryland has long periods during the winter without rain or snow. we're currently in a drought condition)

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