Another Broken Axle / CV Joint

[Cable Guy]

Yup. Tons of people that wanted to either save money by not buying Sasquatch or were too impatient to wait in line for it, but wanted the look. Going out and immediately spending $3k-4k on new tires, rims, and a crappy spacer lift kit doesn't make it a Sas. Lots of broken M190 front axles coming.

The "Lift Me Baby" reference under the wheel wells wasn't in reference to a $50 Rough Country lift or perch collars. It was referring to Fox/King/Billstien coil overs and corrected control arm geometry....aka a proper lift that would cost more than getting Sas Package in the first place.

Not disagreeing here but that‘s really open to interpretation. From a legal perspective it was stupid to put that particular Easter egg on the vehicle. But what do I know having only been in the legal industry for 30 years

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[Cable Guy]

I’m not sure I’m buying this story. You felt you needed 4WD on a gravel parking pad but you’re a “very seasoned 4WD guy”?

Amen. Was waiting for this. Something seems off. Also a ‘member since‘ of a few days ago caught my attention.

 

[Cable Guy]

Yes the Sasquatch has the stronger non-aluminum housing front axle (M220?). It would seem to me, the other components you mentioned, would naturally also be uprated. But I recall reading somewhere some or all are not. I don't know for sure though. A deep dive of the exact differences would be nice, yeah probably somewhere on the forum already.

Personally, I got away with relatively weak Dana 25 and Dana 30 front axles on my CJs for many years. Just had to be more careful with them. I hope the stock non-Sas Bronco is reasonably strong. I was watching a video from a forum member yesterday (think his name is Dusty), and he has posted on YouTube his non-Sas base 2-door manual with 35's hitting some decent trails, and handling the abuse. So that is a good sign.

But handle it FOR HOW LONG? I’m curious how many of these will crap the bed over a fairly short amount of time.

 

[GreyZ]

That would be true assuming that the Uprights/knuckle, axles, CV's, control arms, etc are all the same between SAS and non-SAS. Do we know for sure that all those parts are the same?

That question has remained unanswered. How much of the Sasquatch suspension is shared with the rest of the line and how much is exclusive to it. Are there things on the Sasquatch suspension and drivetrain that compensate for the change in geometry angles with the added height.

The axle is definitely not the same, I assume the axle shafts/CVs are different as well, but I am not sure. It's detailed somewhere on the Forum, I am sure.

Yes the Sasquatch has the stronger non-aluminum housing front axle (M220?). It would seem to me, the other components you mentioned, would naturally also be uprated. But I recall reading somewhere some or all are not. I don't know for sure though. A deep dive of the exact differences would be nice, yeah probably somewhere on the forum already.

It has been written about on this forum already, but if you want to look through fords part system yourself you can. This is a pretty easy to navigate link https://parts.lakelandford.com/p/Fo...rol-Arm-Front--Lower/105745267/MB3Z3079A.html.

The spring/shock is different and the axle housing is different with SAS. The steering rack also has different part numbers, but all other components are the SAME. Same part numbers for arms and axles.

Edit: After some more digging, it looks like I was wrong. It appears that there was some media release that claimed that all axle shafts were the same that was repeated here, but they do have different part numbers.
So it looks like the control arms are the same between models, but rack, axles, and half shafts do change.

 

[Broncotrax]

I'm not expert on lifts and geometry, but I do know that when you lift a vehicle, more is involved that just putting spacers or new coilovers on and then sending it out on the road. Good luck with the warranty.

Exactly. This is the mall crawler lift. Purely for street cred. This is something I'd never do. Watch Lite Brite Youtube and see a CV joint come apart due to this same thing. Just saying. do it correctly or stay near the mall.

 

[kodiakisland]

Part of cheap spacer lifts, and any lift in general, is reduced lifespan of CVs. It just is. Don’t expect Ford to replace at their expense, even if there was an issue from the factory. You pay to play. Either upgrade CVs or pay for direct replacements. Personally I’d upgrade myself instead of paying Ford to put the same ones in there.

this is nothing a very seasoned 4wd person doesn’t already know.

 

[Silver-Bolt]

It has been written about on this forum already, but if you want to look through fords part system yourself you can. This is a pretty easy to navigate link https://parts.lakelandford.com/p/Fo...rol-Arm-Front--Lower/105745267/MB3Z3079A.html.

The spring/shock is different and the axle housing is different with SAS. The steering rack also has different part numbers, but all other components are the SAME. Same part numbers for arms and axles.

Actually it is showing different axles for SAS and non-SAS. https://parts.lakelandford.com/a/Fo...510/Front-suspension-Drive-axles/ML21373.html

 

[VelocityBrew]

I'm happy I found this, it was a good read.

 

[EveryDayBronco]

You're saying that adding spacers doesn't change geometry??? It very much does change your CV angles.

The lift increases the angle for the joints in the drive shafts and as a result they break.

These guys have a fix to prevent it from happening,

Why is this New Ford Bronco Part Failing? - YouTube

 

[Rivers90]

This. I just saw yesterday that someone posted a thread where they were having drivetrain issues and Ford won't warranty it because they have a leveling lift on it.

I was considering upgrading my tires on my OBX to 33s but Im concerned they'd even use that as an excuse to deny warranty even though my dealer was happy to install some and it's not much increase. If warranty is a concern, definitely best to stay OE.

The m190 (dana 30) is not meant for big tires, That is why the badlands with the 33" and the sasquatch with he 35" both have the M210 (Dana 44).
you probity can get away with it most of the time if you never leave the pavement but there is a reason why Ford uses the bigger parts with the bigger tires.

 

[Rivers90]

Agreed. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), is the Sasquatch package uses the same A-arms and attachment points, as the non Sas. So unless the Sas front diff is lower, the angle on the axle shafts/CVs would be same between Sas and non-Sas. And therefore a 1 inch or so "puck" lift, would be essentially the same as 1 inch higher Sas springs.

Ultimately, if the non-Sas Bronco is breaking stuff on pavement with a mild lift and some larger tires, that is not a good sign for the vehicle strength. Maybe something else occurred earlier to the OP's vehicle, and it finally let loose on the driveway?

The m190 and M210 have different CV Axle Shafts, different part numbers. So it is not the same.

 

[Rivers90]

The real question is why the Bronco axle/half shaft is $1100 and the Ranger is $300? You played, now you get to pay. No warranty for you.

https://www.steeda.com/ford-mb3z-3a428-a-bronco-front-right-cv-axle-shaft
$279.95 for a M210 bronco axle/half shaft.
The M190 cant be much more, the added cost is installation.

 

[Aviboy97]

Reading this thread is making me nervous to put 285/70/17’s on instead of the 255/70/18’s that are on my OBX.

Mine is mainly an on-road vehicle. We will be doing some light off-roading at most.

 

[contented]

I've seen so many build threads adding lifts and bigger tires. Seems everyone does it, right? Originally intended to do the same when we ordered an outer banks w/o sas. But after much fussing and fretting about this very topic, we changed our order to a badlands w/ sasquatch. Everything is designed to work together including not only drive shafts, cv joints, axles, axle ratios, 35" tires, etc but also abs, traction control, emergency braking and so forth. And full warranty.

I spent a fair amount of time researching this topic on Jeep threads. Horror stories abound. My take on the bottom line was, if you're going to lift, do it right (costly) and even then, things will wear out much faster. It seemed to be an accepted and expensive fact of life.

To me, the OP is a cautionary tale. I'm staying stock.

 

[da_jokker]

I'm not an expert on suspension geometry. However I think there's a flaw in some folks thinking.

Of course stock suspension has a high and low "range"... It was designed to generally run at a specific angle.

So sure you're tired tucks up under, or drops down but then quickly recovers back to its designed position.

When you're off-roading, and twisting things up, you're doing it slowly.

So when you lift the stock suspension and change that "default angle"... And now you're driving down the freeway speed with this angle that was only supposed to be momentarily....well eventually ....

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