35" KO2s vs 33" KO3s or...

[GroovyGeek]

You might look at the 285/70/17 (33") Mickey Thompson Baja Boss. It's an SL rated tire, but it's a 49lb tire that is an A/T. I have them on my F150 and love them. I just put a set of the 285s on my wife's Bronco.

Yes, I am aware of the 33" Baja Boss SL tires. It's a 2-ply sidewall though, so if I am going to be sticking with 33s it is likely better to keep using the KO2s - similar weight and stronger sidewall.

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[GroovyGeek]

I’m in Moab right now and just replaced my stock 33” KO2s with the Mickey Thompson Baja Boss AT “pizza cutters” in 285/75R17 (35” diameter). Couldn’t be happier. They do not rub at full flex with the crash bars in (1” lift in front) and I’ve noticed a significant improvement in both clearance and the ease of rollover with the larger tire circumference.

They do not look that narrow either, due to the heavy side lugs on the tires. And science says the narrower tires actually perform better than wide tires at lower inflations. Google that subject for some great studies.

I have a throttle commander on the 2.3l manual and I adjusted the sensitivity so there’s no noticeable difference in throttle response.

All in all, I’m officially converted to the pizza cutters on the non-SAS Badlands.

Hmmm 285/75-17 are not the 35" pizza cutters. They are 255/85-17. Is that what you meant?

Thanks, I have seen the video from the FJ dude on these. I wonder how much his results are colored by the fact that he was comparing E rated tires on a relatively light vehicle. Would love to see a similar comparison of the 255/85-17 E rated BBs to a 285/75-17 C rated KO2.

 

[nolimits]

Hmmm 285/75-17 are not the 35" pizza cutters. They are 255/85-17. Is that what you meant?

Thanks, I have seen the video from the FJ dude on these. I wonder how much his results are colored by the fact that he was comparing E rated tires on a relatively light vehicle. Would love to see a similar comparison of the 255/85-17 E rated BBs to a 285/75-17 C rated KO2.

I’ve seen that video too. I personally walked away with more questions and doubts than confidence that pizza cutters were superior. I agree that in his limited testing the results supported his statements. I just think you can rip that apart with other variables that wasn’t mentioned or tested.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t value or advantage in pizza cutters for certain situations. Like anything we have to evaluate the pros and cons. For most, I think the fact they are lighter and can more easily clear suspension and body rub points while providing additional ground clearance is a strong reason to consider them.

Of course if you have the setup/clearance for a wider variant and your gearing isn’t on the edge of making a meaningful difference then I’d prefer the wider tire with slightly more weight/rolling resistance that will generally have more options, be more readily available and probably at lower cost.

 

[BrentC]

Hmmm 285/75-17 are not the 35" pizza cutters. They are 255/85-17. Is that what you meant?

Thanks, I have seen the video from the FJ dude on these. I wonder how much his results are colored by the fact that he was comparing E rated tires on a relatively light vehicle. Would love to see a similar comparison of the 255/85-17 E rated BBs to a 285/75-17 C rated KO2.

Thanks, and yep - I have the 255s and not the 285s. I replaced the OEM BFG 285/70R17 with the 255/85R17s. I’ll correct my OP. Holiday brain at work…

I’ve run them for three days on the rocks aired down to 18psi. I started the week on my K02s and cannot feel much difference in sidewall flex, but I haven’t run the Bajas on a trail I’ve run already with K02s.

 

[BrentC]

I’ve seen that video too. I personally walked away with more questions and doubts than confidence that pizza cutters were superior. I agree that in his limited testing the results supported his statements. I just think you can rip that apart with other variables that wasn’t mentioned or tested.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t value or advantage in pizza cutters for certain situations. Like anything we have to evaluate the pros and cons. For most, I think the fact they are lighter and can more easily clear suspension and body rub points while providing additional ground clearance is a strong reason to consider them.

Of course if you have the setup/clearance for a wider variant and your gearing isn’t on the edge of making a meaningful difference then I’d prefer the wider tire with slightly more weight/rolling resistance that will generally have more options, be more readily available and probably at lower cost.

Good points and good discussion. For consideration - look at the width of the tires used by the Ultra 4 vehicles as a guide to what racers use for widths.

The biggest advantage for me was the tire clearance sitting on stock Badlands non-SAS suspension with the 1” front lift, and on stock 17.8 rims. I am not rubbing on the front with the crash bars still in place though I will post up if I encounter rubbing on the harder trails I’ll be doing this week.

Another consideration I had was the reported superior winter traction from the Mickey Thompsons. I live in Calgary and commute 3hrs to Fernie, BC every weekend for skiing. I can say that the K02s and K01s were terrible on ice, to the point where on my F150 for years I ran Bridgestone Battleaxe A/Ts for acceptable severe winter performance. These days I do run full winters on the F150 (I got two sets of wheels and tires with my 2019 F150) but I want to see if the Bajas live up to their reputation on my Bronco.

For the record, I compared the Bajas to the Nokian Outpost 285/75R17 and the Falken AT4s in the same size. The K03s are not yet available in a size I was interested in (10.5x35).

 

[mdonathan56]

I do see people with SAS's getting decent mileage, but they also have the 4.70 gearing to help with those bigger tires. Not sure what engine/gearing you have (and also not saying you can't run 35's without the 4.70 or on the 2.3) - but taller gears and the smaller 4cyl get impacted more by bigger tires - not as much torque to put to them.

You have a BD with the 4.46 gears so you should have no problem upgrading to 35" tires. The increased diameter will equate to less revolutions per mile and should offset the weight increase to a good 35" tire. Looking at the Nitto Ridge Grappler to replace my K02s when the time comes.
Tread Diam Width Rim Width Load Weight

35x11.50R17LT E 128Q	218850	18.3	34.76	11.42	7.5-(9.0)-10.0	3970 @ 80	66.29

 

[nolimits]

Good points and good discussion. For consideration - look at the width of the tires used by the Ultra 4 vehicles as a guide to what racers use for widths.

The biggest advantage for me was the tire clearance sitting on stock Badlands non-SAS suspension with the 1” front lift, and on stock 17.8 rims. I am not rubbing on the front with the crash bars still in place though I will post up if I encounter rubbing on the harder trails I’ll be doing this week.

Another consideration I had was the reported superior winter traction from the Mickey Thompsons. I live in Calgary and commute 3hrs to Fernie, BC every weekend for skiing. I can say that the K02s and K01s were terrible on ice, to the point where on my F150 for years I ran Bridgestone Battleaxe A/Ts for acceptable severe winter performance. These days I do run full winters on the F150 (I got two sets of wheels and tires with my 2019 F150) but I want to see if the Bajas live up to their reputation on my Bronco.

For the record, I compared the Bajas to the Nokian Outpost 285/75R17 and the Falken AT4s in the same size. The K03s are not yet available in a size I was interested in (10.5x35).

I think most tire manufacturers will show an 8” wide rim as being in the recommended wheel width range for 12.5” tires. However, they will be on the smaller side of the range.

The factor that is often overlooked is that tire manufacturers specify both a measuring rim size and also a range of acceptable rim widths.

Using @mdonathan56’s post as an example, the 35x11.5x17 Ridge Grappler is showing a tire section width of 11.42” on a 9” measured rim with an acceptable rim width range of 7.5 to 10.

For each 1/2” increase or decrease from the measuring rim the tire section width also adjusts 2/10”. For example:

9.5” wheel = 11.62”
9” wheel = 11.42”
8.5” wheel = 11.22”
8” wheel = 11.02”

As the tire section width changes so does the bulge of the sidewall. A smaller section width equals more bulge.

When you begin to consider how actual tire measurements vary widely, not all use the same measuring width and variation of wheel width amongst the end user I believe this all contributes to why one person says tire A fits with no rub/issues and another says it doesn’t.

In your case, the +55 offset of the wheel is likely the larger culprit. Plenty of folks on non-Sqatch Badlands running 35x12.5’s on SAS wheel (+30 offset) takeoffs. Although some of that offset delta is eaten up by wheel width variation.

A lot of technicalities to say I think in your scenario the pizza cutters work well. Add your winter conditions and I like them even more. Wider tires on ice isn’t ideal.

 

[watrboy]

Good points and good discussion. For consideration - look at the width of the tires used by the Ultra 4 vehicles as a guide to what racers use for widths.

The biggest advantage for me was the tire clearance sitting on stock Badlands non-SAS suspension with the 1” front lift, and on stock 17.8 rims. I am not rubbing on the front with the crash bars still in place though I will post up if I encounter rubbing on the harder trails I’ll be doing this week.

Another consideration I had was the reported superior winter traction from the Mickey Thompsons. I live in Calgary and commute 3hrs to Fernie, BC every weekend for skiing. I can say that the K02s and K01s were terrible on ice, to the point where on my F150 for years I ran Bridgestone Battleaxe A/Ts for acceptable severe winter performance. These days I do run full winters on the F150 (I got two sets of wheels and tires with my 2019 F150) but I want to see if the Bajas live up to their reputation on my Bronco.

For the record, I compared the Bajas to the Nokian Outpost 285/75R17 and the Falken AT4s in the same size. The K03s are not yet available in a size I was interested in (10.5x35).

My KO2's are about done also and I like your choice. Wished I would have seen you Saturday, was also in Moab. The benefit in snow is huge and I would like the taller narrow tire.
Anymore input on performance or pictures from the front?

 

[BoverW]

Just realized that BFG makes a true C rated 35" KO3 but they sell it as 35/12.5-17. Weighs almost exactly as much as the pizza cutters (which are E rated).

? Where do you find it? Not on their list.

https://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/aut...cnwZTdVlbDcsGAEq_pMaArdeEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[GroovyGeek]

? Where do you find it? Not on their list.

https://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/aut...cnwZTdVlbDcsGAEq_pMaArdeEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Yes, I realized that which is why I deleted my post. Discount Tire has it listed as an option.

 

[MoabRox]

Good points and good discussion. For consideration - look at the width of the tires used by the Ultra 4 vehicles as a guide to what racers use for widths.

The biggest advantage for me was the tire clearance sitting on stock Badlands non-SAS suspension with the 1” front lift, and on stock 17.8 rims. I am not rubbing on the front with the crash bars still in place though I will post up if I encounter rubbing on the harder trails I’ll be doing this week.

Another consideration I had was the reported superior winter traction from the Mickey Thompsons. I live in Calgary and commute 3hrs to Fernie, BC every weekend for skiing. I can say that the K02s and K01s were terrible on ice, to the point where on my F150 for years I ran Bridgestone Battleaxe A/Ts for acceptable severe winter performance. These days I do run full winters on the F150 (I got two sets of wheels and tires with my 2019 F150) but I want to see if the Bajas live up to their reputation on my Bronco.

For the record, I compared the Bajas to the Nokian Outpost 285/75R17 and the Falken AT4s in the same size. The K03s are not yet available in a size I was interested in (10.5x35).

Please follow up with your report after running some harder trails. I'm curious as to how the narrow, E load tires do.

I too was in Moab last weekend. I saw your Bronco and watrboy's as well. I was running around in my 2-door cactus gray BD with a basket on the factory roof rails. I'm running Falken 285/70R17 AT3Ws. I've been thinking of upsizing to 285/75R17s but I'm glad I didn't.

I was pushing it a little too hard and hit an "invisible" washout in the road (Gemini Twin Bridges). The impact was pretty violent. It burst the foam "bump stop" in the right front coil over and shoved the tire into the inner fender, bending (more like smashing) and splitting it. The tire also hit the bottom of the coolant reservoir. I was lucky that it didn't break. This picture was taken after I bent the flimsy panel back into place (mostly), but you can see the split and the rub marks on the reservoir. Had I been running bigger diameter tires like 285/75R17s or 255/85R17s, I'm certain that the carnage would have been much worse. Food for thought, for what ever it's worth.

 

[Scott M]

Here's another option if you're not set on BFGs: 285/75R17 Toyo Open Country ATIII in Load Range C. These measure 34x11.5. We run them on our 2.3L black diamond with steel wheels and regularly get 19 to 20 mpg per tank on the trip computer with mixed driving. We also have about a 2" lift and run 1.25" wheel spacers. I'm very happy with the balance of on-road manners, off-road performance, looks, and mpgs. They fit without removing the crash bars as well.

See more info here:
285/75/17s on a Black Diamond NON Sasquatch? | Page 7 | Bronco6G - 2021+ Ford Bronco & Bronco Raptor Forum, News, Blog & Owners Community

 

[BrentC]

My KO2's are about done also and I like your choice. Wished I would have seen you Saturday, was also in Moab. The benefit in snow is huge and I would like the taller narrow tire.
Anymore input on performance or pictures from the front?

I did Box Car Loop and Kamikaze yesterday. Moderate-hard ledges on them. Climbed and descended with ease - I was amazed that there was no knocks on the bottom as I certainly would have been hitting the control arm mounts and rear bumper recovery hooks if I was on the 33s. Climbing the ledges I used rear locker and walked up effortlessly. Both my wife and I were shocked at the difference to the 33s.

I aired down to 19psi. Plenty of flex in both the sidewall and tread. Air temp was 26C yesterday.

I’ve attached pics showing the clearance front and back of the front wheels with a 1” RC leveling lift. Stock wheels with no spacers.

I may try Top of the World tomorrow or Wednesday, wife-permitting…

 

[watrboy]

I did Box Car Loop and Kamikaze yesterday. Moderate-hard ledges on them. Climbed and descended with ease - I was amazed that there was no knocks on the bottom as I certainly would have been hitting the control arm mounts and rear bumper recovery hooks if I was on the 33s. Climbing the ledges I used rear locker and walked up effortlessly. Both my wife and I were shocked at the difference to the 33s.

I aired down to 19psi. Plenty of flex in both the sidewall and tread. Air temp was 26C yesterday.

I’ve attached pics showing the clearance front and back of the front wheels with a 1” RC leveling lift. Stock wheels with no spacers.

I may try Top of the World tomorrow or Wednesday, wife-permitting…

Thank you. We only had time for Dome Plateau on Saturday. Down for a wedding reception and came back Sunday. I know an inch makes lots of difference.

 

[tourproto]

Will BFG continue to sell the KO2s alongside the KO3s? Or is this the transition year and next year the KO2s will be history?

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