Save on Fuel (and get more power) - How to Properly Blend with Ethanol

[Dave2020GT]

Hey bud, good to see you over here as well. Thank you for the kind words about the app, It was a ton of work and kind of a labor of love. The needed solution just did not exist anywhere.

Here in California, we do indeed have "true" E85, however, the regulations are that it needs to be a minimum ethanol content (outside of any winter changes) of only 78%. My verification directly with my inline ethanol sensor likely accurate to 1%) indicates that the 78% figure is very consistent and very accurate.

Frankly, I would be a bit surprised if you found CA E85 at EtOH levels that high.

If you remember BgsDks from Mustang6g.com, he was going around testing E85 stations around S.Cali. It was awile ago...either way your app gets me where I need to be.

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[Aknobronco]

While this may be great for some, I am a believer in the fact there are times in life you cannot afford to be cheap. I'm not feeling the need to gamble the cost of an engine replacement $10K+ to save a couple hundred dollars over the course of a year or so despite what the internet tells me.

YMMV

Do you have scientific facts to backup your statement? If not stop spreading lies or your ymmv opinions.

E85 is higher in octane cannot possibly cause engine issues since it allow engine to run cooler!

 

[LeeT]

Hey Swampy, its awesome to see you here as well. Dave079987S from the bimmerforums.

I have been running 2 gallons of E85 every tank full with both the Bronco and the M2. I also got the app, it is excellent. The good news for us here in Cali is we get true E85 or it is taxed like regular gasoline. Every station I buy from tests between E85-E87.

Are you running 2 gallons of e85 and the rest e10 without a tune?

 

[Felix808]

Do you have scientific facts to backup your statement? If not stop spreading lies or your ymmv opinions.

E85 is higher in octane cannot possibly cause engine issues since it allow engine to run cooler!

False pretenses....

Ethanol simply can not and will not harm your engine. It is good for it in ALL ways (power, cleanliness, temperatures, etc.). The only drawback is mpg, which again is not $/mi!

I'll refer you back to post #26



How, possibly does this not sink in? Do you believe there is some magic ethanol "Fetzer Enabler Valve" in all of these Flex Fuel vehicles that make them gobble up E85 reliably for life?

All this said, your peace of mind is worth something.

No. but I do have implicit instructions from the mfg. of my tune that say do not use higher than 10% ethanol, which is fairly standard in most fuels.
Again it may be great for some but not all.
YMMV

 

[Dave2020GT]

Are you running 2 gallons of e85 and the rest e10 without a tune?

Yes, with no issues. Also the 2025 Bronco 2.3 is both DI and PI which probably could run up to E30 with no issues. I am running E20, it also gets me to 93 octane.

I also run E20 in my G87 with no issues. In fact the S58s fuel could probably deal with E40, although no need to push it. I just want to get to 93-94 octane with my M2.

 

[swamp2]

Sorry, bad news...

This is one of those categorically incorrect calculators.

1. The octane of neat (i.e. pure) EtOH shouldn't be an input in such a calculator/algorithm. It is a known/fixed constant, just like say density, specific heat, freezing point, etc.
2. Even if it is an input, neat does not have an octane of 102. It is 100. I have seen worse values used... Incorrect algorithms use this to basically fudge results.
3. The gallons of neat required is not correct either, it's about 1.6 to get to 93. The resulting %EtOH will be 20, not 18.

It's a tough, non-linear and iterative algorithm that is needed (to blend to an octane goal) along with large families of curve fits based on lab test results.

 

[03SVTL]

You know what fuel is even less dense than ethanol? Nitromethane......and we all know what cars run nitromethane, right? Those slow, loud POS's.....why don't they listen and use gasoline with way more energy....

 

[EvilJim1971]

You know what fuel is even less dense than ethanol? Nitromethane......and we all know what cars run nitromethane, right? Those slow, loud POS's.....why don't they listen and use gasoline with way more energy....

That just about looks like hydrazine.

 

[11811]

Of course when something goes wrong with all this fuel mixing experimentation and the Bronco is taken in for warranty work, we will be honest and tell the service rep what we have been doing.

 

[Bigmoose]

Love E85. Back in my mustang days i ran nothing but E85 for 6 years straight in my Terminator. That included 6 months of storage each year for winter. Never had any issues.

aside from making way more power, I primarily ran it for protection. The terminator engines were super stout, but the common killer was detonation. Running E85 in that engine made it near invincible. You could increase timing on E85 so much it would start to lose power and yet never detonate.

forums haven’t changed. Even the SVT forums had know nothings say ethanol was the big bad evil.

for entertainment purposes. Recorded on an old cell phone.

 

[Dave2020GT]

Sorry, bad news...

This is one of those categorically incorrect calculators.

1. The octane of neat (i.e. pure) EtOH shouldn't be an input in such a calculator/algorithm. It is a known/fixed constant, just like say density, specific heat, freezing point, etc.
2. Even if it is an input, neat does not have an octane of 102. It is 100. I have seen worse values used... Incorrect algorithms use this to basically fudge results.
3. The gallons of neat required is not correct either, it's about 1.6 to get to 93. The resulting %EtOH will be 20, not 18.

It's a tough, non-linear and iterative algorithm that is needed (to blend to an octane goal) along with large families of curve fits based on lab test results.

Your app showed even less E85 needed. I would imagine that is HoV being added into the equation. Perhaps I am using it wrong. How do I use the app if I add a couple of gallons of VP Racing 101 unleaded? Not for the Bronco but for the M2. I normally run 2 gallons of E85 and 1.5 gallons of VP Racing in the M2.

 

[SideTrackTap]

No plans now for iOS. Sorry.

Just throwing it out there that I’d be interested in an iOS version. You could probably double your market too.

 

[gbub]

There is one thing that may be a problem when using E85. That is getting into the oil. The guy that used to do my crank work on my race car was a drag racer and he used ethanol fuel. He said that everyone that used ethanol had a problem with ethanol in the oil. Even when they would change oil every race weekend they could still get bearing damage. He used Torco MPZ additive to help with that and suggested I use it to. That would not be good for our Bronco catalytic converters though.

He said the ethanol did not fully blend with the oil and stayed partially separate because it combines with water. This was the main factor that caused bearing failure. There is plenty of water in a combustion chamber to bind with the ethanol.

Our Bronco engines don't see the conditions that a drag race engine does but it is still something to consider.

 

[EvilJim1971]

There is one thing that may be a problem when using E85. That is getting into the oil. The guy that used to do my crank work on my race car was a drag racer and he used ethanol fuel. He said that everyone that used ethanol had a problem with ethanol in the oil. Even when they would change oil every race weekend they could still get bearing damage. He used Torco MPZ additive to help with that and suggested I use it to. That would not be good for our Bronco catalytic converters though.

He said the ethanol did not fully blend with the oil and stayed partially separate because it combines with water. This was the main factor that caused bearing failure. There is plenty of water in a combustion chamber to bind with the ethanol.

Our Bronco engines don't see the conditions that a drag race engine does but it is still something to consider.

That sounds more like methanol.

 

[Spooled]

There is one thing that may be a problem when using E85. That is getting into the oil. The guy that used to do my crank work on my race car was a drag racer and he used ethanol fuel. He said that everyone that used ethanol had a problem with ethanol in the oil. Even when they would change oil every race weekend they could still get bearing damage. He used Torco MPZ additive to help with that and suggested I use it to. That would not be good for our Bronco catalytic converters though.

He said the ethanol did not fully blend with the oil and stayed partially separate because it combines with water. This was the main factor that caused bearing failure. There is plenty of water in a combustion chamber to bind with the ethanol.

Our Bronco engines don't see the conditions that a drag race engine does but it is still something to consider.

I did not experience this at all with my F-150. The only tank of gasoline it ever saw was the one it left the dealership with. It was strictly E85 after that. When I tore it down at 30k miles to build it, the bearings were perfect. Sounds like he was confusing Ethanol with Methanol or you heard wrong. There are plenty of vehicles that are factory flex fuel and can run exclusively on E85

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