HOSS 3.0 Suspension Kits - Now available from Ford Performance!

[SierraBronco]

Sweet, sweet Jesus.

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[userdude]

Claude could probably tell you while also keeping your ego intact if you prompt it correctly.

Claude's a poseur. It's funny what you learn about yourself as you get older. I have fallow and hearty periods. COVID man. When I'm on, I'm on, when I'm off, it's just off. But! hearty always follows fallow, so things are looking up!!

 

[SierraBronco]

Claude's a poseur. It's funny what you learn about yourself as you get older. I have fallow and hearty periods. COVID man. When I'm on, I'm on, when I'm off, it's just off. But! hearty always follows fallow, so things are looking up!!

Ever since that post where the guy said he asked AI about lifting his bronco or what wheels to get or whatever it was, I’ve been playing around with it. Using it (grok) as a search engine can be very useful. But damn. If you don’t know enough about what you’re asking it can absolutely be providing bad information. Good example is the above rear spring rate. I gave it the necessary information and told it to calculate the final rate.

So while this is the correct answer, the problem is that it didn’t challenge me or validate what I told it. It just did it the way I wanted. Not ideal, really. Another example is I asked it to explain what KOM meant in reference to engine tuning. It came back with KOM being an abbreviation for Kompressor, a term used by Mercedes to describe their turbos. No grok. No. It’s knock octane modifier. “Oh. Okay. That’s what it is then”

So it’s useful but you gotta do your part.

 

[userdude]

Ever since that post where the guy said he asked AI about lifting his bronco or what wheels to get or whatever it was, I’ve been playing around with it. Using it (grok) as a search engine can be very useful. But damn. If you don’t know enough about what you’re asking it can absolutely be providing bad information. Good example is the above rear spring rate. I gave it the necessary information and told it to calculate the final rate.

So while this is the correct answer, the problem is that it didn’t challenge me or validate what I told it. It just did it the way I wanted. Not ideal, really. Another example is I asked it to explain what KOM meant in reference to engine tuning. It came back with KOM being an abbreviation for Kompressor, a term used by Mercedes to describe their turbos. No grok. No. It’s knock octane modifier. “Oh. Okay. That’s what it is then”

So it’s useful but you gotta do your part.

Oh shit, yeah it's a sweaty running back fumbling the football when it comes to math. You ever have a nightmare where you weren't sure it was a nightmare? That's AI. I'm a software engineer and we treat it like the first year junior developer whose bright but more likely to break things he can't fix. It is what it is but you gotta be on your guard.

 

[SierraBronco]

To get back on topic I will post Grok’s answer on the difference between the OEM HOSS 3.0 Fox coilovers that came with the Wildtrak compared to the FP kit in the original post. I’m pasting this without looking at the answer in any capacity beyond scrolling to the bottom to copy everything.


Yes, there are differences between the HOSS 3.0 Fox coilovers that come standard on the 2024 Ford Bronco Wildtrak and the Ford Performance Fox coilover package with part number M-18000-B2. Based on available information about the 2024 Wildtrak and the M-18000-B2 kit, here’s a comparison:

• Standard HOSS 3.0 on 2024 Wildtrak:
  • The 2024 Wildtrak comes equipped with the HOSS 3.0 suspension, which includes 2.5-inch FOX internal bypass shocks with remote reservoirs, featuring 5-zone rate-sensitive damping. This setup is designed for a prerunner philosophy, offering progressive damping from compliant support to maximum resistance to prevent bottoming out on big drops. It also includes a severe-duty steering rack, upgraded tie rods, and a rear stabilizer bar on both 2-door and 4-door models. The shocks are tuned for high-speed off-road performance, as seen in the Wildtrak’s Baja mode, and are standard equipment validated through Ford’s durability testing.
• Ford Performance M-18000-B2 Coilover Package:
  • The M-18000-B2 kit, designed for 2021-2025 Bronco 4-door models (except Raptor), is a direct bolt-in replacement suspension package that includes HOSS 3.0 2.5-inch FOX shocks with 5-zone damping, internal bypass, and remote reservoirs, along with a rear stabilizer bar, sway bar endlinks, and mounting hardware. This kit provides approximately 2 inches of lift (on non-Sasquatch packages), improving ground clearance and approach/departure angles (e.g., front approach angle from 35.5° to 44.3°, rear departure angle from 29.7° to 37°). It’s backed by a Ford Performance 3-year/36,000-mile warranty when installed by a Ford dealer or certified technician and is marketed as an upgrade for ride quality and stance.

Key Differences

1. Lift and Geometry:
   • The M-18000-B2 kit introduces a ~2-inch lift, altering the suspension geometry, ground clearance, and approach/departure angles, which is not present in the standard Wildtrak HOSS 3.0 setup. This lift is an enhancement for off-road capability but may require alignment adjustments or affect on-road handling compared to the factory-tuned Wildtrak suspension.
2. Purpose and Installation:
   • The Wildtrak’s HOSS 3.0 is factory-integrated, tuned specifically for the Wildtrak’s weight, 35-inch tires, and Sasquatch package, optimized for high-speed desert running. The M-18000-B2 is an aftermarket upgrade kit, designed as a bolt-in replacement to improve ride quality and stance on non-Raptor 4-door Broncos, suggesting it may offer a broader compatibility but potentially less tailored tuning for the Wildtrak’s specific configuration.
3. Warranty and Validation:
   • Both share the same 3-year/36,000-mile warranty when dealer-installed, and the M-18000-B2 is validated through Ford’s durability testing (e.g., NORRA 1000). However, the standard Wildtrak shocks are pre-installed and tested as part of the vehicle’s assembly, while the M-18000-B2 requires installation, which could introduce variables in performance depending on the technician.
4. Potential Tuning Differences:
   • While both use 2.5-inch FOX internal bypass shocks with 5-zone damping and remote reservoirs, the M-18000-B2 kit’s lift and aftermarket nature might indicate slight tuning adjustments (e.g., spring rates or damping zones) to accommodate the lift and broader application. The Wildtrak’s shocks are specifically tuned for its factory setup, which might offer a more seamless integration with its V6 powertrain and Sasquatch components.

Conclusion


The primary difference lies in the M-18000-B2 kit’s ~2-inch lift and its role as an upgrade package, which enhances ground clearance and angles but alters the factory-tuned geometry of the Wildtrak’s standard HOSS 3.0. Both share the same core FOX 2.5-inch internal bypass shock design with 5-zone damping, but the kit’s aftermarket application and lift suggest potential tuning differences to suit a wider range of Broncos. For your rock crawling needs, the lifted M-18000-B2 could improve obstacle clearance, but the standard Wildtrak HOSS 3.0 might provide better factory-optimized performance unless the lift aligns with your suspension goals.

 

[stut1313]

Could you just order the Fox shocks w/o the springs from Ford and reuse your original springs? That way they would “tuned” for your vehicle.

 

[5GENIDN]

Ever since that post where the guy said he asked AI about lifting his bronco or what wheels to get or whatever it was, I’ve been playing around with it. Using it (grok) as a search engine can be very useful. But damn. If you don’t know enough about what you’re asking it can absolutely be providing bad information. Good example is the above rear spring rate. I gave it the necessary information and told it to calculate the final rate.

So while this is the correct answer, the problem is that it didn’t challenge me or validate what I told it. It just did it the way I wanted. Not ideal, really. Another example is I asked it to explain what KOM meant in reference to engine tuning. It came back with KOM being an abbreviation for Kompressor, a term used by Mercedes to describe their turbos. No grok. No. It’s knock octane modifier. “Oh. Okay. That’s what it is then”

So it’s useful but you gotta do your part.

do your part as in tell it what your answer should be? LOL... So you are training it so one day it may be helpful?

 

[SierraBronco]

do your part as in tell it what your answer should be? LOL... So you are training it so one day it may be helpful?

I mean…I guess you could say that

It has been pretty helpful in teaching me solidworks. I’ve got a solid two hours of experience now.

 

[5GENIDN]

Could you just order the Fox shocks w/o the springs from Ford and reuse your original springs? That way they would “tuned” for your vehicle.

That would change the bypass positions relative to neutral ride height.... They would not preform as designed... I could be wrong but that would be my knee jerk gut reaction. The dampeners are designed to operate through 5 different positions. By changing the neutral ride position you are changing the starting position relative to those locations.

 

[5GENIDN]

I mean…I guess you could say that

It has been pretty helpful in teaching me solidworks. I’ve got a solid two hours of experience now.

Looking good. that is one of the softwares I used to teach... Even had a class in conjunction with the machining class where groups of 4 (2 of my students and 2 machining students would work together to solve a problem, design the solution, rapid prototype a solution and then use mastercam to tool path and machine it.... Fun times! Dassault systems has some really good add ins for solid works that can do all kinds of kinematic and stress analysis. Those can get really spendy though.... Was always nice to have the "educational package"... They wanted everyone to learn on their packages so when they got out on the job.... "hey boss... buy this software..." LOL we got a lot of that free or very cheap...

 

[OverBudget]

Technically…she doesn’t have a rear suspension at the moment…

I should go back through the thread to see if this has been answered, but…I’m not gonna-can one simply buy factory Hoss 3.0 shocks for less than these or are they the same? And the timing is rather convenient.

is this the vasher rock crawler setup? its set up to utilize "universal" coilovers? does the front switch to a universal as well?

 

[SierraBronco]

Bigmeats is the real deal. His fabrication skills are vastly superior to mine and that Braptorizing setup he did on the front is amazing. I did feel pretty cool when he hit me up for brake bleed advice. Even batman needs a fresh perspective every now and then. (Not sure how much I helped though. He was already on the right path)

Werewolf has a few advantages. 1.35 gear reduction gets us a larger pinion up front when we regear. Steel is stronger than aluminum AND weldable, as you mentioned. 5.5” of lift and while that puts even more leverage on the suspension mounts (this is why we strengthen) the additional lift gets us more useable uptravel before hitting the fenders, assuming the uniball can take it. No body lift this time so that 1.5” is made up for with the additional lift from the werewolves. We’re redoing the shock towers anyway so we can account for that by going 4.5” taller than stock instead of 3.75”. Will keep it simply though at 4” and give the CV’s some reprieve. Rock Krawler made us a custom shim stack to account for the unsprung mass increase of the portals by increasing rebound on the new coilovers. We had them go a tad high so we shouldn’t need to change it for the werewolf portals.

I need to also give @5GENIDN a shout out for his feedback in the gearing discussions we’ve had regarding this change.

 

[5GENIDN]

I need to also give @5GENIDN a shout out for his feedback in the gearing discussions we’ve had regarding this change.

Oh no... I did nothing, and that is the truth... I have been rather busy figuring out soil mixes for rammed earth walls... I may be a little too excited about that project....

 

[SierraBronco]

is this the vasher rock crawler setup? its set up to utilize "universal" coilovers? does the front switch to a universal as well?

Not his rock crawler setup as I believe that’s now a cantilever design, but it’s his shock tower and trailing arm. The front of this build is all our own design and work, but on the long travel build we’ll be using his front suspension design and that will be a universal setup without the clearance spacer on the bottom of the coilover. He’s doing some custom stuff per my request like the bypass towers. I originally asked for 1.5” uniballs to get more misalignment ability but he took that a step farther with heims and fabricated knuckles.

 

[BroncoDymond88]

Yeah it’s probably roughly the same as Sasquatch height.

Non-Sas to Sas was around that 1.5” mark depending on curb weight and spring rate. If this is just the same suspension that was on Wildtrak it is probably sprung for what the Wildtrak curb weight was. And that was the heaviest trim other than Badlands.

Most of the non-Sas Broncos (other than Badlands) are a fair amount lighter, so I could see how it’s closer to a 2” lift than a 1” lift.

Just putting it out there because it doesn't seem to be a well known fact. My '23 Hoss 3.0 WT was roughly 2" lower than my '21 Wildtrak.

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