Looking at Badlands vs Sasquatch Wheel/Steering Geometry

[razehound]

Hey! I'm hoping to understand the difference between the non-sasquatch and sasquatch (HOSS 3.0) wheel placement and suspension setup:

Known: the non-Sas runs +55 offset wheels, and the Sas runs +30 offset *with upgraded components.

What I would like to know is: Did the engineers at Ford change the steering axis placement/orientation when moving to a +30 offset in order to keep the same scrub radius as the non-sasquatch models? Or did they just move the wheels out and then put on a "heavy duty steering rack" to compensate for the increased leverage on the suspension?

I'm asking because I'd like to know what my wheel options are on my Sasquatch. If they really did modify the steering axis for a +30 offset, I would not want to go to +35 or higher wheels and get a zero or possibly negative scrub radius. Now if the setup is the same as a non-sas, then that would mean moving to +0 wheels would actually be a 55mm shift away from how the steering was designed, not a 30mm shift. Generally I wouldn't want to move more than an inch away from the centerline the vehicle was designed with.

I'm aware that many people run +0 without significant issue, but I am: 1. planning to run technical offroading, 2. planning on keeping to 200k+ miles, 3. in love with the green paint and want to protect it, and 4. an obsessive mechanical engineer

If anyone has looked into this before, please let me know!

*Not sure if this should go under the suspension or wheels category, admins feel free to place where fit*

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[PWillette]

Did the engineers at Ford change the steering axis placement/orientation when moving to a +30 offset in order to keep the same scrub radius as the non-sasquatch models?

No they did not.

 

[userdude]

I don't know this for sure, but I believe the "severe duty" HD rack (HOSS 3.0) has to do with handling shock loads more effectively with heavier duty tie rods and rack body. Can't really speak to scrub radius, maybe @Snacktime or @5GENIDN has more insight there.

 

[MNBigfoot]

Non-sas Badlands (as well as all Sasquatches) have had the HD rack since 2024.

 

[5GENIDN]

I don't know this for sure, but I believe the "severe duty" HD rack (HOSS 3.0) has to do with handling shock loads more effectively with heavier duty tie rods and rack body. Can't really speak to scrub radius, maybe @Snacktime or @5GENIDN has more insight there.

Scrub radius is only going to be changed by tires, wheels, suspension etc.... Not the steering rack. The big upgrade with the Performance rack is that it has a reinforced "stiffer" housing and 30% more torque with the electric motor. The more rigid reinforced housing allows for a stronger tie rod while keeping that tie rod the "fuse" in the system. I think.... (someone correct me if I am wrong please) that the rack itself may be slightly larger diameter matching the increase of diameter in the tie rod, which would dictate a change in the pinion to match.

 

[userdude]

Scrub radius is only going to be changed by tires, wheels, suspension etc.... Not the steering rack. The big upgrade with the Performance rack is that it has a reinforced "stiffer" housing and 30% more torque with the electric motor. The more rigid reinforced housing allows for a stronger tie rod while keeping that tie rod the "fuse" in the system. I think.... (someone correct me if I am wrong please) that the rack itself may be slightly larger diameter matching the increase of diameter in the tie rod, which would dictate a change in the pinion to match.

I do believe the 3.0 housing is bigger around than the 2.0 housing. At least that's what the side-by-side photos and videos I've seen showed, "look at how much bigger it is".

 

[razehound]

No they did not.

Okay, so then +35mm offset it is. No way am I touching 0. Would consider +25, but the KMC wheels I want are sold out anyway...

I wonder if moving the sasquatch tire in 5mm will give me issue

 

[PWillette]

Okay, so then +35mm offset it is. No way am I touching 0. Would consider +25, but the KMS wheels I want are sold out anyway...

I wonder if moving the sasquatch tire in 5mm will give me issue

5mm shouldn't be an issue. Keep searching wheels...by all accounts on the forum +18 to +12 is sweet spot for scrub radius and rubbing running 315s or 35 x 12.50s. Also, there's some very light wheels out there that will help offset added tire weight if that is a concern.

 

[Snacktime]

Both steering racks have the same turning radius and steering ratio.

The break down, this is to clear the spindle.
0mm offset for 13.5" wide tires
18mm to 25mm offset for 12.5" wide tires
55mm for 11" wide tires

0mm offset is the best for clearing crash bars and tire fitment. Back in 2021 when the bronco came out most wheel manufactures tried to stay close to SAS offset to prevent rubbing. My KMC wheels are 18mm because that was what I knew worked at the time and things have since changed!

 

[razehound]

Both steering racks have the same turning radius and steering ratio.

The break down, this is to clear the spindle.
0mm offset for 13.5" wide tires
18mm to 25mm offset for 12.5" wide tires
55mm for 11" wide tires

0mm offset is the best for clearing crash bars and tire fitment. Back in 2021 when the bronco came out most wheel manufactures tried to stay close to SAS offset to prevent rubbing. My KMC wheels are 18mm because that was what I knew worked at the time and things have since changed!

So the stock tires at 30mm won't clear?

Based on this breakdown, I'd run +35mm wheels with a 10mm spacer, for 12.5" width I'm not going all the way to 0.

BTW I'm referring to the method 703s which only come at 35 or 0. I can look at other tires but I like the bead retention tech, and my other choice in the category is sold out (KMC).

 

[5GENIDN]

Okay, so then +35mm offset it is. No way am I touching 0. Would consider +25, but the KMS wheels I want are sold out anyway...

I wonder if moving the sasquatch tire in 5mm will give me issue

You will not even notice a change of 5..... or even 10..... in either direction. That is the difference in tires of the "same size" made by different tire manufacturers. 10 is less than 1/2 inch.

 

[Snacktime]

So the stock tires at 30mm won't clear?

Based on this breakdown, I'd run +35mm wheels with a 10mm spacer, for 12.5" width I'm not going all the way to 0.

BTW I'm referring to the method 703s which only come at 35 or 0. I can look at other tires but I like the bead retention tech, and my other choice in the category is sold out (KMS).

I would buy the 0 offset and not worry about having to cut out the front body mount crash bar to run 37s. 35mm offset would be fine with a metric narrow 35 like 285/75 r17. Need to figure out the tire you want at this point.

I would look hard at RTR zero offset hub centric wheels, they hold up better long term finish wise.

 

[shaw]

Hey! I'm hoping to understand the difference between the non-sasquatch and sasquatch (HOSS 3.0) wheel placement and suspension setup:

Known: the non-Sas runs +55 offset wheels, and the Sas runs +30 offset *with upgraded components.

What I would like to know is: Did the engineers at Ford change the steering axis placement/orientation when moving to a +30 offset in order to keep the same scrub radius as the non-sasquatch models? Or did they just move the wheels out and then put on a "heavy duty steering rack" to compensate for the increased leverage on the suspension?

I'm asking because I'd like to know what my wheel options are on my Sasquatch. If they really did modify the steering axis for a +30 offset, I would not want to go to +35 or higher wheels and get a zero or possibly negative scrub radius. Now if the setup is the same as a non-sas, then that would mean moving to +0 wheels would actually be a 55mm shift away from how the steering was designed, not a 30mm shift. Generally I wouldn't want to move more than an inch away from the centerline the vehicle was designed with.

I'm aware that many people run +0 without significant issue, but I am: 1. planning to run technical offroading, 2. planning on keeping to 200k+ miles, 3. in love with the green paint and want to protect it, and 4. an obsessive mechanical engineer

If anyone has looked into this before, please let me know!

*Not sure if this should go under the suspension or wheels category, admins feel free to place where fit*

That's a great question, and one I've wondered about too. My understanding is that the HOSS 3.0 package includes more than just a heavier-duty steering rack, but I haven't found anything from Ford confirming whether they actually changed the steering axis geometry to maintain a similar scrub radius with the +30 offset. If they didn't, then your reasoning about cumulative offset changes makes a lot of sense—especially if you're optimizing for long-term component life and technical off-roading rather than just appearance. Hopefully someone who's dug into the suspension geometry or has access to Ford engineering documentation can weigh in, because this is the kind of detail that's surprisingly hard to find.

 

[razehound]

That's a great question, and one I've wondered about too. My understanding is that the HOSS 3.0 package includes more than just a heavier-duty steering rack, but I haven't found anything from Ford confirming whether they actually changed the steering axis geometry to maintain a similar scrub radius with the +30 offset. If they didn't, then your reasoning about cumulative offset changes makes a lot of sense—especially if you're optimizing for long-term component life and technical off-roading rather than just appearance. Hopefully someone who's dug into the suspension geometry or has access to Ford engineering documentation can weigh in, because this is the kind of detail that's surprisingly hard to find.

Yes its a bit of an ask. If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on them not doing any redesign, and just relying on the "stronger" components compensating for the leverage.

Pending any sort of official correction of that statement, I think I want to stick my tires as far in as possible without clearance issues.

Just going off of the stock sasquatch setup, I'd need to add a minimum of 5mm via spacer in order to use 35mm wheels with 315 or 12.5" tires. Now this brings me to another question which I have been unable to find a concrete answer for:

What is the stock stud length, and can it fit a 5 or 10mm spacer while still getting a full 8 turns/12mm lug nut engagement?

I would love to not have to replace the stock studs. And the thinnest bolt-on spacers I can find are 0.75", which leave an effective offset of +16, which despite what many on the forum might say, is aggressive when compared to the original +55 (pending any correction). So neither route sounds ideal if the fitment on the stock studs has no margin.

 

[MNBigfoot]

That's a great question, and one I've wondered about too. My understanding is that the HOSS 3.0 package includes more than just a heavier-duty steering rack, but I haven't found anything from Ford confirming whether they actually changed the steering axis geometry to maintain a similar scrub radius with the +30 offset. If they didn't, then your reasoning about cumulative offset changes makes a lot of sense—especially if you're optimizing for long-term component life and technical off-roading rather than just appearance. Hopefully someone who's dug into the suspension geometry or has access to Ford engineering documentation can weigh in, because this is the kind of detail that's surprisingly hard to find.

Hoss 3.0 was simply the new rack and Fox shocks, that is all. The next year all Sas Bronco's got the new rack from 3.0.

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