Stock tune on Bilstein 8112 is garbage; re-tuned with linear piston

[telenerd]

So what is the best shock for crawling slow then? Stock?

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[crenca]

This is SO misunderstood by many in the hobby and I'm glad you called this out. The expected body roll like trucks in the 90s is just not a thing anymore on an IFS truck with modern front/rear sways.

True, but this does not mean that digressive shocks do not have their place. Sway bars, for example are not that helpful with brake dive and squat. In an overall well-designed package, digressive shocks are but a piece of the puzzle that helps with on-road stability and performance.

I regularly wheel my Bronco, but I'm on the road a lot more than I am off. I drive hard on the road, and I like how the stock SAS shocks perform, which would be different (not as good) if they were linear or progressive.

The 81 12s in particular use digressive design to provide that awesome high-speed off-road performance, it's part of the equation.

Yes, there are consequences, in suspension design everything is a trade-off and there is no free lunch. The OP admits that he fell for the ' I can have my cake and eat it too' salesmanship, even though everyone knows there is no free lunch (to mix metaphors) in suspension design and life in general.

I pay a (for me relatively small) price off-road, in that when I am going slow or crawling the digressive shocks are providing more damping in the ride zone a linear or progressive would. For me and many others the trade off is understood and well worth it. If I went with a linear or progressive shock, I would get slightly better performance off-road but the price on road would be more than I am willing to pay. For others the trade-off is what they want.

But let's face it, for at least half of us we just get what we get and are $sold$ without really understanding the real differences between these designs...

 

[Brian_B]

All this talk makes me want to jump to custom brackets for the ORI struts.

 

[Brian_B]

But let's face it, for at least half of us we just get what we get and are $sold$ without really understanding the real differences between these designs...

I admit this is true for me, although I'm trying to learn. Just a lot to catch up on. And most of it involves math.

 

[Smocaine]

I love the ride feel of linear response, so I'm not surprised that linear-izing the digressive Bilsteins made them much more comfortable. It's kinda the whole reason I dumped the stock Bilstein setup in the first place.
With so much adjustment I would have thought that "dialing it in" would be a straightforward affair.

 

[crenca]

I admit this is true for me, although I'm trying to learn. Just a lot to catch up on. And most of it involves math.

A person can grasp it without the math. For example, the person I replied to mentioned the 'expected body roll of trucks of the 90's' and how sway bar's mitigate that today. However, most can understand that the Bronco does not have the same spring rates as a typical pickup sold today. In that the Bronco is 'under-sprung and over-damped' from the factory. That's why it squats so easily with weight, can't tow much, etc. Being under-sprung compared to a pickup or normal road car is intentional - it allows it to articulate off road in the expected manner. The sway bars and digressive shocks help mitigate the springs on road so that it handles there as well. A trade off 'fixing' a trade off, etc...

RJ sway bars and sway bar deletes "helps" off road but "hurts" on road...consequences. Replacing digressive with linear or progressive has consequences....subjective consequences. One man's "good ride feel" is another man's "wallows like a whale" or "stiff as a board"....

 

[87-Z28]

With so much adjustment I would have thought that "dialing it in" would be a straightforward affair.

I am going to keep beating this horse for coilovers with mechanically fixed spring rates. Not possible to swap in different mechanical springs will driving over different terrain, so clever use of damping is the only possible adjustment. Unfortunately spring rates dominate the response and are a more powerful adjustment knob.

Spring rates dictate fundamental response and damping fine tunes said response with respect to a given use case. Displacements (suspension handling) and forces (ride comfort) are DIAMETRICALLY APPOSED. Physics dictates it is NOT possible to adjust damping to “DIAL IN” a one size fits all solution. It is however possible to dial in very good results for a particular use case.

 

[crenca]

Displacements (suspension handling) and forces (ride comfort) are DIAMETRICALLY APPOSED. Physics dictates it is NOT possible to adjust damping to “DIAL IN” a one size fits all solution.

This should be repeated several times. Repeat after @87-Z28:

Physics dictates it is NOT possible to adjust damping to “DIAL IN” a one size fits all solution....

Physics dictates it is NOT possible to adjust damping to “DIAL IN” a one size fits all solution....

Physics dictates it is NOT possible to adjust damping to “DIAL IN” a one size fits all solution....


The next time a salesperson or youtube presenter or forum poster has you believing he is saying you can have your cake and eat it to (i.e. perfect control/articulation in the rocks, majestic high speed whoop stability, soft as a Cadillac on the road with zero dive/roll/squat), ask your self two questions:

1) Is he really saying that, or is it what you want to hear?

2) If he really is saying that, should you believe him?

 

[87-Z28]

Just so I am not misunderstood. I am not commenting on the 8112s or how the OP perceives their comfort. And not trying to be negative. I am sure the OP has a legitimate beef and is displeased with their comfort.

can coilovers be made to provide reasonable comfort and also reasonable handling? Yes. But sacrifices must be made. a good way to do this is through clever and adjustable damping. The 8112s may or may not accomplish this. I have no idea and that is highly subjective anyway.

can coilovers optimize comfort and also handling at the same time? No. Optimizing comfort will sacrifice handling and vice versa.

If you are spending >5k on coilovers then tuning them to your specific application is a good way to go. The OP essentially did this and is letting others know. There may be some that are also not pleased with the factor tune for the 8112s.

 

[23OBX2.7]

I've had various Bilsteins over the years and they are fabulous at faster speeds but suck at daily speeds. Mine were usually worn out with significant ride degradation after 18 mths.

Won't buy another Bilstein.

 

[telenerd]

I've had various Bilsteins over the years and they are fabulous at faster speeds but suck at daily speeds. Mine were usually worn out with significant ride degradation after 18 mths.

Won't buy another Bilstein.

Howdy what shock would you purchase?

 

[23OBX2.7]

I bought B6 several times. Love them at speed hate them at low speed. That's performance dampers thought it's a trade off.

 

[Rkgzx9leftcoast]

So what is the best shock for crawling slow then? Stock?

You are not going to beat custom tuned shocks, such as the ones being gone through in this video, or the ones Accu-Tune does for their own Ride Shocks , or say a King or a Fox. The owner of the vehicle can tune the ride for what is most important to them. They all have compromises for the masses as a trade off. For the price difference, which is a pretty good you can have them gear them toward your ride preference, both shock tuning and spring rate.

 

[Rkgzx9leftcoast]

Its actually a really good deal he has on these 8112s custom tuned by him.

 

[Valhalla]

Stumbled on this and can't find them on his site.

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