Fire Extinguisher & Tested / Approved Electrical Parts Compilation Thread

[SierraBronco]

Yes minus the relay trigger pos/neg which is super small voltage. At some point soon I am going to put an inline fuse block probably 1" off on the POS wire from the battery to the relay to add some more protection. That wire is 2ft long. I also need to address my dual POS feeds for the rear ARB as the fuses are 12" out from the battery.

Nice man. Looking at our setup I’m thinking I’ll do the relay right close to the battery, then fuse on the little adventure lab bracket. (It’s much smaller than expected )

Sponsored

 

[CalvinT]

Anybody seen this extinguisher?
https://www.ake.com/
Expensive but looks like it works real well.
discuss…..

I decided to get one of their standard fire extinguishers after doing some research and watching a number of videos on their site. Yes it's expensive, but that's an up front cost. If you have a fire their extinguisher could be the most cost effective. Their standard model seems to be equivalent to the H3R HalGuard PRO 2.5 lb extinguisher which sells for $530 (my conclusion, not theirs). Smaller HalGuard extinguishers aren't rated for class A fires. H3R six year warranty, Stop-Fyre lifetime warranty.

There's no damage from dry chemical residue. Their standard model can take the place of both a PPK and standard dry chem extinguisher. You don't have to replace it or have it recharged if you use it to put out a small fire. You don't have to replace/recharge it every 12 years.

Their phone support is very knowledgable and I had a lot of questions. They don't have a UL approval because UL doesn't rate halon extinguishers anymore. They are manufactured to D.O.T. and U.S.C.G. standards.

I asked them about engine fires. They recommend quick bursts aimed through the grill until you see white smoke. Then open the hood and finish extinguishing the fire. You could probably shoot through the wheel well also since fender liners are plastic.

 

[Russ.Cere]

Reading through this thread, another great one by @SierraBronco, I figure some of y'all might find the following helpful/interesting. I enjoy reading this kinda stuff.

General info on wire insulation and jacket materials: Insulation and Jacket Materials

You can often use the short hand form, ETFE/CSP/PTFE, to search for exotic specialty wire if you don't mind shelling out for a really custom job.

Tefzel (ETFE)/Fluoropolymer Data Sheets: Properties Handbook

Teflon (PTFE)/Fluoropolymer Data Sheets: Properties Handbook

Keep in mind there are probably innumerable variations of these plastics tailored to specific use cases.

 

[SierraBronco]

Reading through this thread, another great one by @SierraBronco, I figure some of y'all might find the following helpful/interesting. I enjoy reading this kinda stuff.

General info on wire insulation and jacket materials: Insulation and Jacket Materials

You can often use the short hand form, ETFE/CSP/PTFE, to search for exotic specialty wire if you don't mind shelling out for a really custom job.

Tefzel (ETFE)/Fluoropolymer Data Sheets: Properties Handbook

Teflon (PTFE)/Fluoropolymer Data Sheets: Properties Handbook

Keep in mind there are probably innumerable variations of these plastics tailored to specific use cases.

Updated OP with links to this post and @CalvinT post on AKE extinguishers

 

[nolimits]

Just to note on my install, kept the Warn wiring POS to the Stinger and the NEG over to the neg port where Ford puts it for the winches and outside the BMS circuit. I ran a new 2/0 battery cable pure copper from battery POS to the Stinger.

Appreciate this feedback. What winch do you have? And are your Warn POS and NEG cables also 2 AWG? If so, isn’t the power from the Stinger to the controller “starved” when you step down from your 2/0 cable to the #2?

Am I incorrect in thinking you would want to continue using 2/0 on all your runs for consistency?

FWIW, I do think 2/0 size is correct as it’s capable of handling 400 amps in short distances. My EVO 12s is a hair under 400 amps at full load according to the Warn product data and it appears the Zeons are a smidge over 400. It seems odd to me that Warn shipped them with #2 wire. As @SierraBronco eluded to upstream, I am sure they are doing some analysis that says most users don’t max out to worse case scenario and #2 is the compromise. Apparently they are smarter than me because lots of guys run what came in the box with no mods and no issues. That said I would feel a lot better with 2/0 wire if I were in a shit situation.

Yes minus the relay trigger pos/neg which is super small voltage. At some point soon I am going to put an inline fuse block probably 1" off on the POS wire from the battery to the relay to add some more protection. That wire is 2ft long. I also need to address my dual POS feeds for the rear ARB as the fuses are 12" out from the battery.

Do you have a pic of your current configuration? For some reason I thought you also had a BAMF relocation bracket but it sounds like maybe you don’t. I’m trying to gauge the correct length of positive from relocated controller to Stinger and then from Stinger to battery. I was thinking 1’ and 2’ respectively.

Pic of BAMF relocation setup borrowed from another B6G user (can’t recall whom, maybe @Sloth ?).

 

[SierraBronco]

Appreciate this feedback. What winch do you have? And are your Warn POS and NEG cables also 2 AWG? If so, isn’t the power from the Stinger to the controller “starved” when you step down from your 2/0 cable to the #2?

Am I incorrect in thinking you would want to continue using 2/0 on all your runs for consistency?

FWIW, I do think 2/0 size is correct as it’s capable of handling 400 amps in short distances. My EVO 12s is a hair under 400 amps at full load according to the Warn product data and it appears the Zeons are a smidge over 400. It seems odd to me that Warn shipped them with #2 wire. As @SierraBronco eluded to upstream, I am sure they are doing some analysis that says most users don’t max out to worse case scenario and #2 is the compromise. Apparently they are smarter than me because lots of guys run what came in the box with no mods and no issues. That said I would feel a lot better with 2/0 wire if I were in a shit situation.



Do you have a pic of your current configuration? For some reason I thought you also had a BAMF relocation bracket but it sounds like maybe you don’t. I’m trying to gauge the correct length of positive from relocated controller to Stinger and then from Stinger to battery. I was thinking 1’ and 2’ respectively.

Pic of BAMF relocation setup borrowed from another B6G user (can’t recall whom, maybe @Sloth ?).

If I’m reading this correctly, it shouldn’t be an issue to run 2/0 from the battery to the relay and then something smaller from the relay to the device as long as you are recognizing the limitations (fusing appropriately) for the smaller wire. For our new setup we’re looking at 1/0 or 2/0 from the battery to the relay, then the same wire to a 500A class T fuse (NOT ANL) and into a distribution block. From there we’ll run winch wiring and compressor wiring (100A) separately.

Hopefully we can start working on our stuff today and I’ll see what wire came with the winches. Seems the front winch (10S) came with thicker stuff and the rear (8s) was smaller from the factory. Could be wrong. Ran my own POS wire for the rear but the ground we just tied into the frame and will be replacing it with 1/0 back to the battery.

 

[vrtical]

Appreciate this feedback. What winch do you have? And are your Warn POS and NEG cables also 2 AWG? If so, isn’t the power from the Stinger to the controller “starved” when you step down from your 2/0 cable to the #2?

Am I incorrect in thinking you would want to continue using 2/0 on all your runs for consistency?

I have a VR EVO 10 and its 2 AWG. The battery to the relay is just an extension of the battery so its perfectly fine. You can make arguments to upgrade the entire run to 2/0 but what I did isn't going to cause any issues unless I hammer the winch continuously for a excessive amount of time with a lot of weight and overheat the wiring, its just basic correct use of the winch. This one is rated at max continuous 358 Amps / 10,000lbs.

FYI, I also carry a snatch block so unless I can't reach an anchor point, I am doubling up / reducing the pull rate by 2. My rig is like 6k so technically I am only using 3k of weight the winch has to work with. Another point is by taking more line off the spool, it will reduce the work the winch needs to do.

 

[SierraBronco]

I have a VR EVO 10 and its 2 AWG. The battery to the relay is just an extension of the battery so its perfectly fine. You can make arguments to upgrade the entire run to 2/0 but what I did isn't going to cause any issues unless I hammer the winch continuously for a excessive amount of time with a lot of weight and overheat the wiring, its just basic correct use of the winch. This one is rated at max continuous 358 Amps / 10,000lbs.

FYI, I also carry a snatch block so unless I can't reach an anchor point, I am doubling up / reducing the pull rate by 2. My rig is like 6k so technically I am only using 3k of weight the winch has to work with. Another point is by taking more line off the spool, it will reduce the work the winch needs to do.

Snatch blocks are so under appreciated. Heck, we have two of them and enough tree savers and rigging to make them useful. They don’t weigh anything or take up hardly any room and can be very useful even just for a redirect if need be. Really good point about the reduction of work you’ll be needing from the winch

 

[vrtical]

Snatch blocks are so under appreciated. Heck, we have two of them and enough tree savers and rigging to make them useful. They don’t weigh anything or take up hardly any room and can be very useful even just for a redirect if need be. Really good point about the reduction of work you’ll be needing from the winch

I carried one before I put the winch on, we had to use it one time because I got stuck in front so we used the rig behind me to unstuck it I never went wheeling without someone in the group having a winch, its just not if its when lol. I use to have it laying on my shelf rack, but since I put the DV8 larger under floor unit in, its now there sight unseen along with just about everything else except my air hoses.

 

[SierraBronco]

I carried one before I put the winch on, we had to use it one time because I got stuck in front so we used the rig behind me to unstuck it I never went wheeling without someone in the group having a winch, its just not if its when lol. I use to have it laying on my shelf rack, but since I put the DV8 larger under floor unit in, its now there sight unseen along with just about everything else except my air hoses.

This thing. So much room for activities (dogs up top. Tools and whatnot inside)

 

[nolimits]

@SierraBronco and @vrtical thanks fellas, appreciate the additional insight.

I am definitely not trying to justify larger wiring or knock anyone else’s setup. I just suck at electrical and genuinely trying to learn so I do it right from the get go.

Great point about the snatch blocks. I can’t imagine too many scenarios where you wouldn’t want to use one, if possible. Especially when you factor grade, mud and other resistance which can quickly gobble up what you gain from a snatch block. When doing research on winches, I liked the fact the Badlands Apex manual clearly addressed this and gave the end user some reasonably decent info to assess those losses in the field.

https://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/56000-56999/56385.pdf

In my scenario, the one thing still bothering me is why BAMF included #4 wire for my extended controller leads needed to use their relocation bracket. Im going to take a second look to ensure that Warn didn’t use #4 on the included control leads as well. Had I known then what I know now I likely wouldn’t have bought that wire kit. Right or wrong, my line of thinking was if I’m going to replace 3 cables about 5.5’ why not get the ground and small positive jumps at the same time.

 

[SierraBronco]

@SierraBronco and @vrtical thanks fellas, appreciate the additional insight.

I am definitely not trying to justify larger wiring or knock anyone else’s setup. I just suck at electrical and genuinely trying to learn so I do it right from the get go.

Great point about the snatch blocks. I can’t imagine too many scenarios where you wouldn’t want to use one, if possible. Especially when you factor grade, mud and other resistance which can quickly gobble up what you gain from a snatch block. When doing research on winches, I liked the fact the Badlands Apex manual clearly addressed this and gave the end user some reasonably decent info to assess those losses in the field.

https://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/56000-56999/56385.pdf

In my scenario, the one thing still bothering me is why BAMF included #4 wire for my extended controller leads needed to use their relocation bracket. Im going to take a second look to ensure that Warn didn’t use #4 on the included control leads as well. Had I known then what I know now I likely wouldn’t have bought that wire kit. Right or wrong, my line of thinking was if I’m going to replace 3 cables about 5.5’ why not get the ground and small positive jumps at the same time.

My mantra on wiring is bigger=better. That’s why we ran a 4G wire to the back for the compressor. But we could’ve ran 2/0 and it wouldn’t have saved us from the fire as it all came down to that loose connection. And knowing what I know now, had it been a ground to short situation, using the wrong AIC rated fuse might not have saved it either.

I need to look into what this BAMF thing is that you keep referring to. In my head I’m picturing a relay but it doesn’t seem to be the case.

 

[nolimits]

I need to look into what this BAMF thing is that you keep referring to. In my head I’m picturing a relay but it doesn’t seem to be the case.

Bay Area Metal Fab (BAMF) is a fab shop. They do lots of various things but probably best known around here for their beefy bumpers. This is what led me to them. About 6 months ago, I placed an order for a bumper and opted to go ahead and get the relocation bracket and optional wire kit. When running their bumpers, one of the advantages to relocating the winch solenoid is it helps keep the bumper tucked tighter to the vehicle and also doesn't require relocation of your front camera to retain functionality.

Lead time was long and it just shipped to me a few weeks back. I've been swamped at work and haven't had a chance to dive into the install until now.

They sell the bracket separate so anyone can buy one regardless of bumper type. If you opt for the "wire kit" they include 3 new controller leads (blue, green, yellow), approx 62-66" long each and made from #4 TechFlex wire. No other solenoids, or electronic parts are included.

The bracket does have a space on it where you can attach a switch or solenoid/relay if you want to add one. The bracket itself attaches to the screw that holds battery in-place and test fitting a little earlier today is pretty fucking tight.

Pics attached to hopefully better show what I'm talking about. FWIW, when you order the relocation bracket and wiring kit together w/ the bumper you get for $200 total. And at the time, there was another 25% off the entire order so I'm all in for about $150 for the bracket & wires only.

https://www.bayareametalfab.com/6th-gen-BRONCO-WARN-EVO-winch-solenoid-relocation-bracket_p_171.html

 

[SierraBronco]

Bay Area Metal Fab (BAMF) is a fab shop. They do lots of various things but probably best known around here for their beefy bumpers. This is what led me to them. About 6 months ago, I placed an order for a bumper and opted to go ahead and get the relocation bracket and optional wire kit. When running their bumpers, one of the advantages to relocating the winch solenoid is it helps keep the bumper tucked tighter to the vehicle and also doesn't require relocation of your front camera to retain functionality.

Lead time was long and it just shipped to me a few weeks back. I've been swamped at work and haven't had a chance to dive into the install until now.

They sell the bracket separate so anyone can buy one regardless of bumper type. If you opt for the "wire kit" they include 3 new controller leads (blue, green, yellow), approx 62-66" long each and made from #4 TechFlex wire. No other solenoids, or electronic parts are included.

The bracket does have a space on it where you can attach a switch or solenoid/relay if you want to add one. The bracket itself attaches to the screw that holds battery in-place and test fitting a little earlier today is pretty fucking tight.

Pics attached to hopefully better show what I'm talking about. FWIW, when you order the relocation bracket and wiring kit together w/ the bumper you get for $200 total. And at the time, there was another 25% off the entire order so I'm all in for about $150 for the bracket & wires only.

https://www.bayareametalfab.com/6th-gen-BRONCO-WARN-EVO-winch-solenoid-relocation-bracket_p_171.html

Ohhhhhhhkay. I think I’ll need to look up a wiring diagram or something because it seems like there’s a lot of wire. And I can’t imagine that the 135 amp circuit breaker is for the winch as that’s not nearly enough capacity.

Couple things, if I may:

Those set screws on the circuit breaker are the same style of connection that loosened on mine and caused the fire. (Again-zero evidence of a short to ground) Apparently this loosening is a common occurrence due to the expansion and contraction from heat cycling, and is further exacerbated when used under the hood.

I’m sure BAMF did plenty of testing, but it’s alleged that circuit breakers under the hood can also be problematic. Remember that they simply work based on heat. That extra heat from being in the engine bay can make them trip early and often when in use. The class T fuse takes care of both issues by using ring terminals and the sand helps to dissipate heat for more consistent and reliable protection.

 

[nolimits]

Ohhhhhhhkay. I think I’ll need to look up a wiring diagram or something because it seems like there’s a lot of wire. And I can’t imagine that the 135 amp circuit breaker is for the winch as that’s not nearly enough capacity.

To me, it appears 3 red wires are controller leads (normally blue, green, yellow) that snake down and go back to the winch, 1 red wire that is true power from the winch solenoid to the 135a breaker and then 1 red wire from the breaker and going to the battery. There's a couple more pics on their website but it doesn't show a lot more although I did notice it appears they may have grounded the winch to the fender body bolt in lieu of the negative battery terminal.

This makes me think the breaker is wired to protect the winch. But that's just speculation on my part as I haven't had any direct conversations with BAMF about how they wired their rig in those photos.

I'm with you and still not comfortable using a 135a breaker. For clarity, in my setup, I will be using the Stinger 500a relay and wire to an outfitter so I have a kill switch inside the cab.

In my quest for more info, I did stumble upon this thread that provides some interesting logic concerning wire & switch size.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/go-to-source-for-winch-power-cable-size.61428/

Timely post. I’m installing a VR EVO 10s, which has a lower max draw (360 amps) than the others discussed here. I looked at a lot of calculators (sorry, I didn’t keep bookmarks) and discussed a bunch with a professional electrical engineer (brother-in-law)

One big question is “continuous” vs “intermittent“ specs. A winch is intermittent - but there isn't a clear definition of exactly how intermittent it might be. Very few specs call out an intermittent duty cycle. But let me go through some numbers I found -

The contactor pack included with the VR Evo 10s is an Albright DC88-1074P. Closest datasheet I can find says a 1000P-series is rated for 100A continuous, 185A at 30% intermittent duty cycle. That's for a 360A motor...

All the included wiring is 2g. For the 12" long leads between the control pack and the motor, this is fine for 360A. But for the 72" long leads to power and ground, no chart anywhere will say 2g is adequate for 360A.

Warn sells an accessory cutoff solenoid kit, containing an AMETEK SAS-4214 solenoid. Available in 100A and 200A versions (let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they ship the 200A), still no part of the spec meets 360A, much less the 450A+ of their larger winches

Losses in the winch situation add up as the inverse-sums, so each of these things matter a little. When everything is stone cold, first use, you'll get as close as you're going to get to the max power draw on the motor. Then as you continue to pull, things heat up and conductivity derates, current will drop off. Eventually you need to stop and let it all cool off, or your winch has suddenly lost a few thousand pounds of pull. For instance with my winch, if the system is limited to 300A at the motor, it's dropped from 10k to 8k.

If you keep pulling anyway - for instance your solenoids or contactors might be unable to break the current and you can have a nasty stuck-on situation. Uncommon, sure, but you don't have to search very hard to find examples on various forums, even with USA-made Warns.

I decided to go bigger, but not crazy big. Using the stock short cables to the control box in the stock position on top of the winch. 1/0 pure copper welding cable for the long power/ground run to battery (pure copper only, beware copper-clad aluminum). Blue Sea 9003E battery switch on the power line, close to the battery (350A continuous, 600A 5 min-intermittent). Bought a proper hydraulic crimping tool with an excellent die set to build the cables myself (beware cheap Chinese tools without separate AWG and metric dies!) - but online built-to-order battery cable suppliers are probably cheaper for a single install.

And yes, I know this might all be a bit excessive. Bolt up the stock 2g wires and forget about it, and it'll pull fine on the average flattish stuck. I just wanted to go a step or two beyond for the edge cases.

Sponsored