Why is off-road lighting so expensive?

[Cux211]

This you?



Seems a little contradictory.

How so it’s just sheet metal for cryin out load you’re kinda splitting hairs there I wouldn’t consider a tail gate table to be a part that needs to be highly engineered hell if I had the time I’d just fab my own and have somebody powder coat it. But hey if you wanna pay $700 for something that simple have at it. If you know of a good company that makes them and doesn’t rape its customer by trying to charge $700 for a couple pieces of sheet metal im all in send me a link

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[HOSSMAN]

I know quality plays into many and so does what you intend to do with them. People bang on Rough Country stuff but I have good luck with their products. I have their 3" Osram ditch lights on top and look cool because the light wraps around them, look beefy. Also have the triple fog light kit for the modular bumper, all a fraction of the cost of others out there and turn night time into daylight. We live in the hill country in Texas, muy grande deer everywhere like people have dogs, I light up from the trees to the ground.

This pic isn't that great but when my wife took it she is still seeing spots lol.

 

[cr117]

How so it’s just sheet metal for cryin out load you’re kinda splitting hairs there I wouldn’t consider a tail gate table to be a part that needs to be highly engineered hell if I had the time I’d just fab my own and have somebody powder coat it. But hey if you wanna pay $700 for something that simple have at it. If you know of a good company that makes them and doesn’t rape its customer by trying to charge $700 for a couple pieces of sheet metal im all in send me a link

I was more commenting on the well-established companies that take care of their customers part.

 

[Cux211]

I was more commenting on the well-established companies that take care of their customers part.

Well nothing is absolute, I looked around there’s nothing out there that was what I wanted or was ridiculously over priced so I figured for something as simple as a tailgate table I’ll take a chance on a company I never heard of if it’s wonky then I’ll either fix/mod to make it better or shit can the whole idea all together, keep in mind I’ve been and still am a heavy duty diesel truck guy so I know that market not the gasser suv market so I’m not always sure of who the “good” companies are in this segment, some products are standard across most segments for example leds in that case I’d only be using diode dynamics or BD

 

[Lcubed]

I have cheap AUXbeam ditch lights on our Bronco, honestly after 2 years they are still better than the factory LED headlamps lol.

sounds like you need to make sure your factory headlights are properly aimed especially if you've added weight

 

[Bbaliatico]

And perhaps off-road lights are not so expensive given the cost of components for high-output, made in USA, etc., but I did have some sticker shock first joining this forum with my new Bronco. Mind you, I have done decades of off-road, but it has been primarily driving beaches night fishing or beach fun days with friends and family. When surf fishing working up and down beaches at night, you want minimal light so as to not scare fish that feel safe coming close to the shore due to darkness. When you hit a popular area, a lot of driving around with just parking lights on the beach. Using your headlamp to change a lure? Red light and turn away from water. Anyway, I just figured in a competitive free-market economy ditch lights and light bars would not get you into the $500 - $1,000 range. Any quality (and I assume quality is the key here) less expensive alternatives I am missing?

I cannot image why LEDs cost so much, but I do not like the look regardless. My Hella 500's were $60 a pair. I have had them on every vehicle since the late 90's with no issues. Even cars. Foglights always seem to break in my world. LED OEM factory lights in yellow were $20.

 

[Fmuguira]

Times have been “too good for way too long” …… people have lost touch with finances/purchasing and it’s with everything in our economy.

Vehicles, housing, food, entertainment; you name it!

Hate to think about when the correction starts, and if it doesn’t our economy and standard of living will be on life support for generations. Your kids, grandkids, etc will NEVER understand let alone realize the “American Dream”. ( It ll be more of a Nightmare)

Sad but true due to everyone’s “needs”. (Actually WANTS)

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

What bothers me is when the LED light source is not plug and play replaceable, like I use to do when replacing halogen bulbs in my older vehicles. Instead we are looking at considerably more money having to replace the entire light assembly.

Also somehow I have low cost LED lights fitted in all my home lighting fixtures, but for vehicles the costs after switching to LED light sources have multiplied. It's not some new technology anymore.

That LED that you are using in your home. Can you submerge it in water? Can it withstand freezing/heating constantly? Can you rub it in the dirt without it breaking? The money you spend on lights goes into the circuit boards/leds used AND the housing itself. The seals, the optics, the circuit board, the wiring, the housing, etc..

It's not just an LED connected to a battery hanging there.

The same could be said for the seats in your truck. I could spend $250 on a chair in my home that's just as comfortable IF NOT more comfortable then the one in my Bronco. So why is the Bronco seat so much more? Well it's got sensors in it, heating/cooling features, it's got a safety rating, it might even have an airbag on the side.

So there's a LOT more to a seat in a Bronco then a seat in your home...

Also don't forget the cost of EVERYTHING has increased.

Remember when homes were $5,000? Well I don't but my grandparents would remember. You could buy a home out of the sears catalog for a few grand. Now you can buy a home IF YOU ARE LUCKY for half a million!

Prices go up every single year. Raw materials go up. Labor rates go up. It's not like it used to be.

 

[JediMcMuffin]

I will say what I do find difficult about lighting is that the marketing for it seems slanted to sell you lights for going racing. It’s hard early on to discern what’s effective from what’s overkill. For most folks one pair of fogs and one pair of driving is more than enough. You also don’t need the peak output versions of each but it sure is nice.

 

[popo_patty]

That's not actually true... Nobody is making a killing on anything. In fact, business right now is slow for everybody and a lot of vendors are having a tough time right now.

A lot of people forget what goes into selling something. I have the following expenses before I even get to give myself any kind of salary

-Inventory
-Rent (as I have a retail store/warehouse)
-Insurance
-Payroll
-Electricity
-Oil (we're on oil here for heat) or A/C in summer
-Internet
-Credit card fees (we don't charge our customers so this comes out of our end)
-E-Commerce storefront fees
-Marketing (we spend a FORTUNE on google/facebook marketing) not to mention all the forums we're on
-Discounts (because we offer discounts, and that takes a HUGE chunk out of profits)

Finally, after all that MAYBE I get to pay myself, as an owner, something. I'll be honest though, and every business owner will tell you the same thing. We are the LAST PEOPLE who make money and sometimes don't.

Sooo all of this costs money.

It also costs a lot of money to make lights.

Baja Designs makes their lights BY HAND. Diode Dynamics makes their lights BY HAND. They don't have some automated system building them. SURE the circuit boards might come off an assembly line, but there's an actual human that is soldering the components, screwing down boards, making the light a LIGHT. That guy gets paid a living wage too.

Unlike overseas lights which are cheap because they don't pay their workers a living wage, american made products cost money because of what goes into them. When you buy something from an american company you are helping to put food on someones table. Pay someones rent. Give someone an education.

There's more to buying any product basically then paying "cost". Too many people want "a deal" and "just give it to me for a little over cost" but fail to realize ALL the other factors that go into it.

Well spoken

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

I will say what I do find difficult about lighting is that the marketing for it seems slanted to sell you lights for going racing. It’s hard early on to discern what’s effective from what’s overkill. For most folks one pair of fogs and one pair of driving is more than enough. You also don’t need the peak output versions of each but it sure is nice.

Well companies, like ours, cater to EVERYBODY.

You may want a set of fogs, great. We have an entire section on fog lights. We have lots of options within lots of budgets.

But someone may also want ditch lights, or bumper lights or roof lights. So we have them as well.

It's like going to the Grocery store. You may only be going for milk and bread but someone else might want rice. Or someone may want a frozen dinner. Gotta cater to everybody. Why buy a frozen dinner at $12.99 when you can make it yourself for $2.50 though!

I have TONS of lights on my own truck, but i NEVER use any of them, except my headlights/fog lights. The rest honestly are for show/bragging rights. I like the look of a mean looking off-road looking truck. That's my thing.

Some people wear $1500 sneakers. I wear the $40 specials.
Some people only want $25 fog lights. I have $7,000 worth of lights on my truck.

To each their own. Can't hate someone elses hobby because you don't like what it costs. I don't play golf but I don't frown on people for buying expensive golf clubs

 

[Big Swede]

That's not actually true... Nobody is making a killing on anything. In fact, business right now is slow for everybody and a lot of vendors are having a tough time right now.

A lot of people forget what goes into selling something. I have the following expenses before I even get to give myself any kind of salary

-Inventory
-Rent (as I have a retail store/warehouse)
-Insurance
-Payroll
-Electricity
-Oil (we're on oil here for heat) or A/C in summer
-Internet
-Credit card fees (we don't charge our customers so this comes out of our end)
-E-Commerce storefront fees
-Marketing (we spend a FORTUNE on google/facebook marketing) not to mention all the forums we're on
-Discounts (because we offer discounts, and that takes a HUGE chunk out of profits)

Finally, after all that MAYBE I get to pay myself, as an owner, something. I'll be honest though, and every business owner will tell you the same thing. We are the LAST PEOPLE who make money and sometimes don't.

Sooo all of this costs money.

It also costs a lot of money to make lights.

Baja Designs makes their lights BY HAND. Diode Dynamics makes their lights BY HAND. They don't have some automated system building them. SURE the circuit boards might come off an assembly line, but there's an actual human that is soldering the components, screwing down boards, making the light a LIGHT. That guy gets paid a living wage too.

Unlike overseas lights which are cheap because they don't pay their workers a living wage, american made products cost money because of what goes into them. When you buy something from an american company you are helping to put food on someones table. Pay someones rent. Give someone an education.

There's more to buying any product basically then paying "cost". Too many people want "a deal" and "just give it to me for a little over cost" but fail to realize ALL the other factors that go into it.

Yea, I think Amazon is hurting a lot of American companies, kinda like Walmart did when they abandoned the American Made products, that got them to where they are. A lot of Chinese cheap crap being pushed by importers through Amazon. No customer service and crappy products. There are good companies on there too, but they all kinda get lumped together. Have to be careful buying on there.

 

[JediMcMuffin]

Well companies, like ours, cater to EVERYBODY.

You may want a set of fogs, great. We have an entire section on fog lights. We have lots of options within lots of budgets.

But someone may also want ditch lights, or bumper lights or roof lights. So we have them as well.

It's like going to the Grocery store. You may only be going for milk and bread but someone else might want rice. Or someone may want a frozen dinner. Gotta cater to everybody. Why buy a frozen dinner at $12.99 when you can make it yourself for $2.50 though!

I have TONS of lights on my own truck, but i NEVER use any of them, except my headlights/fog lights. The rest honestly are for show/bragging rights. I like the look of a mean looking off-road looking truck. That's my thing.

Some people wear $1500 sneakers. I wear the $40 specials.
Some people only want $25 fog lights. I have $7,000 worth of lights on my truck.

To each their own. Can't hate someone elses hobby because you don't like what it costs. I don't play golf but I don't frown on people for buying expensive golf clubs

Whoa there buddy. Scroll back and look at the number of times I’ve give you props on here. Please know I’m throwing gratitude your way.

I’m just saying when I was new at the hobby looking in the marketing (not so much yours) did not make things easy to understand and match to my needs because I didn’t even know what my needs were at the time. I think you and I are about as far apart in preference as possible. I’m all function and care very little about form.

 

[userdude]

Whoa there buddy. Scroll back and look at the number of times I’ve give you props on here. Please know I’m throwing gratitude your way.

I’m just saying when I was new at the hobby looking in the marketing (not so much yours) did not make things easy to understand and match to my needs because I didn’t even know what my needs were at the time. I think you and I are about as far apart in preference as possible. I’m all function and care very little about form.

Probably off topic to the thread, this discussion, but I concur; like a lot of things, the amount of options is dizzying. On the Basic/Baller/Golden God scale, I'm definitely Basic.

Also somewhat unrelated, here's a long interview by Big Rich of one of the founders of Rigid Lights (who now owns Nacho Lights). Talks a lot about the business side of it, including getting bought out by Penske and how that went.

https://www.bigrichklein.com/nacho-nacho-lights-join-steven-adams-on-episode-194/

 

[PEGB]

Ya know those hats and shirts we give away are like $15 each. We have them made here on Long Island. So YOUR business helps OUR business and helps ANOTHER small business on Long Island. Basically 5 companies benefit when you buy a fog kit from us, 6 technically

1) The Light Company
2) Us
3) Our Sheet Metal partners
4) Their powder coating partner
5) Out apparal company
6) My wiring guy
7) We can also throw the box company into the mix sine we have to ship the box
8) The shipping company

So basically 8 companies get paid by the time you guys get a fog light kit from us. You can see how those CRAZY PROFITS dissapear fast

This is where my mind goes when I read these discussions or ones about those greedy auto workers wanting more money lol. It always boils down to this for me: Where the F@ck do people think those dollars their fellow blue collar workers want, will go? We’re a nation of born and bred consumers. If we make more money, we f’ing spend it. For better or worse, every one of those dollars benefit whole communities and to some degree our nation. They’re buying cars, televisions, off road lights, groceries, ice cream, you name it. Henry Ford, who advocated for higher wages and shorter work hours wasn’t a humanitarian (as evidenced by his anti-semitism and often brutal anti-union actions). He was a Capitalist. He knew that if people had disposable income and spare time, they would spend both stimulating the economy. And it worked.

I’ve got to stay out of these threads for my own health. My blood pressure skyrockets and trying to encapsulate this topic in a few words on the internet is too difficult. I find it deeply disheartening to watch people attack and denigrate their fellow workers and community members while their real enemies are laughing all the way to the bank, as they always have, regardless of the theoretical economic or political systems they exist under. Jay Gould may be incorrectly credited with this quote, but its truth sadly rings true still today; You could hire half of the middle class to kill the other half. I won’t pretend to be an economic expert or have all the answers like so many on the internet, but I do believe we need to find a way to acknowledge the greed and jealousy that’s so pervasive in our culture and think carefully about the true source of our discontent. I suspect we would learn that our biggest enemy is much closer to us than we realize. I know for me personally, I see him daily in the mirror.

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