Why do some Broncos have more rear tow hooks?

[Beach_Bum]

Working on heavy earthmoving equipment all my life, Kinetic ropes scare the hell out of me, because when you get a running start there’s really no way to judge how much stored energy is actually there and it can be a ridiculous amount.
I’ve seen too many large parts fly across the shop and go through walls and toolboxes (heard is a more accurate description because they fly like shot from a cannon) I even remember a pin years ago that we never found. Even something like a chain or threaded puller rod can store energy as it stretches a relatively small amount of length. We usually throw a welding blanket over that stuff and it really slows them down but sometimes we get in a hurry and think our equipment is in better shape than it is. An inspector just yesterday took away one of my lifting chains because it was stretched…. I had no clue.

Ideally a soft shackle fails before the bolts holding that large albeit pretty hunk of metal fail turning that pretty recovery jewelry into a death seeking projectile.

I didn't want to intercede on the current discussion, but your comment above is why kinetic ropes get a bad rap. If at any point a recovery plan is communicated where the recovery vehicle is getting a running start like Wile E. Coyote attempting to sling-shot across a canyon, STOP. There aren't enough nylon fibers woven into the rope to withstand those antics. I likely mentioned it on the Popo Patty video thread. But people need to slow down in recovery and discuss the plan. If anyone is not comfortable with the execution, then they need to discuss the corrective action before executing an improper recovery.

Using a kinetic rope properly never entails getting a running start.

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[Fordified1]

I didn't want to intercede on the current discussion, but your comment above is why kinetic ropes get a bad rap. If at any point a recovery plan is communicated where the recovery vehicle is getting a running start like Wile E. Coyote attempting to sling-shot across a canyon, STOP. There aren't enough nylon fibers woven into the rope to withstand those antics. I likely mentioned it on the Popo Patty video thread. But people need to slow down in recovery and discuss the plan. If anyone is not comfortable with the execution, then they need to discuss the corrective action before executing an improper recovery.

Using a kinetic rope properly never entails getting a running start.

From what I’ve seen, it almost always entails starting with slack and taking off. That’s a running start. Even Matt on Matt’s recovery does this. How would the kinetic energy be made and used otherwise?

 

[userdude]

From what I’ve seen, it almost always entails starting with slack and taking off. That’s a running start. Even Matt on Matt’s recovery does this. How would the kinetic energy be made and used otherwise?

Matt himself jokes about how he breaks "the rules" because he's been doing it a long time and know the risks involved. I assume some pull is required, but yanking it hard (as hard as you can) seems counter productive and likely to cause problems.

 

[Beach_Bum]

From what I’ve seen, it almost always entails starting with slack and taking off. That’s a running start. Even Matt on Matt’s recovery does this. How would the kinetic energy be made and used otherwise?

After securing the rope between vehicles, the recovery vehicle takes up all the slack. Then reverses allowing some slack. The next phase is to pull forward as if driving from a stop sign - not slow, but not taking off. As the slack is taken up, it will stretch and build kinetic energy at which point that kinetic energy is released. If the stuck vehicle isn't "framed" or completely sunk, it should respond to the released energy providing enough inertia for it to overcome the initial suction. In tandem, the recovery vehicle continues to move forward with the recovered vehicle driving out.

If after being recovered and the recovered vehicle needs to be towed back to level ground or a trailhead, then a tow strap should be used and the kinetic rope stored. A kinetic rope is not a tow strap and vice versa.

 

[Combustion_King]

LMFAO, i didn't even notice there was a difference. I guess having 2, I assumed everyone did.

 

[BroncocnorB]

After securing the rope between vehicles, the recovery vehicle takes up all the slack. Then reverses allowing some slack. The next phase is to pull forward as if driving from a stop sign - not slow, but not taking off. As the slack is taken up, it will stretch and build kinetic energy at which point that kinetic energy is released. If the stuck vehicle isn't "framed" or completely sunk, it should respond to the released energy providing enough inertia for it to overcome the initial suction. In tandem, the recovery vehicle continues to move forward with the recovered vehicle driving out.

If after being recovered and the recovered vehicle needs to be towed back to level ground or a trailhead, then a tow strap should be used and the kinetic rope stored. A kinetic rope is not a tow strap and vice versa.

I’m sorry I must be a dumbass. But if I remember my physics class, kinetic energy is energy created by an object in motion. If the towing vehicle’s point is to convert its moving energy to a rubber band, isn’t it really a potential energy tow line?

 

[Beach_Bum]

I’m sorry I must be a dumbass. But if I remember my physics class, kinetic energy is energy created by an object in motion. If the towing vehicle’s point is to convert its moving energy to a rubber band, isn’t it really a potential energy tow line?

Sorry, I'm not following your question.

The recovery vehicle moves forward taking up the slack. The rope will continue to stretch once the slack is removed. At which point that "stretch" is storing kinetic energy and it will rebound/release that energy. If the stuck vehicle is framed or sufficiently mired in it's environment, then that released energy will be transferred to the recovery vehicle stopping and jerking it backwards. When people mash the skinny pedal on the recovery vehicle to get a running start is when most failures occur. People will deflect blame on the recovery gear (which might be deserving if it is damaged/underrated) when in reality it is operator error.

A shovel and a winch is more appropriate to overcome the suction force instead of repeatedly "jerking" with a kinetic rope.

 

[SierraBronco]

I’m sorry I must be a dumbass. But if I remember my physics class, kinetic energy is energy created by an object in motion. If the towing vehicle’s point is to convert its moving energy to a rubber band, isn’t it really a potential energy tow line?

I’m now officially calling it a potential energy rope

 

[DriveAllNight]

I’m now officially calling it a potential energy rope

Only when it's stretched
Most of the time it's just a rope with stretchy fibers

 

[BroncocnorB]

Sorry, I'm not following your question.

The recovery vehicle moves forward taking up the slack. The rope will continue to stretch once the slack is removed. At which point that "stretch" is storing kinetic energy and it will rebound/release that energy. If the stuck vehicle is framed or sufficiently mired in it's environment, then that released energy will be transferred to the recovery vehicle stopping and jerking it backwards. When people mash the skinny pedal on the recovery vehicle to get a running start is when most failures occur. People will deflect blame on the recovery gear (which might be deserving if it is damaged/underrated) when in reality it is operator error.

A shovel and a winch is more appropriate to overcome the suction force instead of repeatedly "jerking" with a kinetic rope.

My point was that kinetic energy is converted to potential energy in the strap. The strap stores it then releases it. Its potential energy in the strap, not kinetic

 

[JWBroncoATL]

I think it depends on what you consider recovery. I don't think there are enough strong fasteners used with them to withstand a dynamic recovery. If you were going to just pull on that hook with constant pressure, it should stay together if the bronco weight is mobile and not pulling up a steep incline.

I don't know that I would trust it say if you go over the edge of a rocky edge, and have to pull a dead bronco over rocks and trees up the side of the hill.

I hear you. No one can answer the following questions definitively:

• What are the Ford OEM hooks rated to?
• At what rating do they fail?

So, I replaced the Ford OEM Hooks with ones with published ratings and testing limits so that the piece that WILL fail is something I choose, and not a metal object connected to the end of a dynamically loaded recovery strap.

 

[mike8675309]

I hear you. No one can answer the following questions definitively:

• What are the Ford OEM hooks rated to?
• At what rating do they fail?

So, I replaced the Ford OEM Hooks with ones with published ratings and testing limits so that the piece that WILL fail is something I choose, and not a metal object connected to the end of a dynamically loaded recovery strap.

My guess is Ford didn't test them to get the rated.

Did the hooks you purchased provide any information on the bolts or other mounting needed to support the published rating?

I really like the frame reinforcement support that Lobo Offroad has in some of their parts for the Bronco like their bumpers and this crash bar erase kit.
https://lobooffroad.com/product/crash-bar-erase-brace-kit-bronco/

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

I didn't want to intercede on the current discussion, but your comment above is why kinetic ropes get a bad rap. If at any point a recovery plan is communicated where the recovery vehicle is getting a running start like Wile E. Coyote attempting to sling-shot across a canyon, STOP. There aren't enough nylon fibers woven into the rope to withstand those antics. I likely mentioned it on the Popo Patty video thread. But people need to slow down in recovery and discuss the plan. If anyone is not comfortable with the execution, then they need to discuss the corrective action before executing an improper recovery.

Using a kinetic rope properly never entails getting a running start.

Thanks for bringing this up man. Not sure many will see in buried here, but hoping those who do at least remember.

Think the most damaging talk is calling it a “snatch” strap. There is no snatch that should happen. You want to use low end torque rather than horsepower to give the rope time to stretch and the rings or shackles to gradually reach their limit, then it transfers to the stuck vehicle to pull it along, while that driver gives a little throttle, not a lurch.

This is one reason why, yes I carry one (Voodoo Rope), but hate to have to use it and do so as a last resort. Only used mine once, but have used them before in other rigs.

If one person doesn’t know what they’re doing, or wants to “send it”, you’ll encounter some problems, but with Popo Patty, he had a cheap shackle and admitted that.

You NEVER go cheap on safety and recovery gear. This is where you should invest the most. Go out enough and you’ll use some of it and you never want it to fail. Using the gear gets it dirty and most don’t maintain or clean, so using over and over a cheap item and it will fail.

Wish more will actually do some reading rather than just listening to some guy on YouTubes. Yes, including the recovery guy who is always full of bad info since context is rarely given. Plus, doing things the right way doesn’t ever look exciting, so filming wouldn’t be as entertaining.

The guy is trying to entertain you, people! He’s not a damn teacher!

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