Why can't Ford fix the cam phaser issue?

[Madman1133]

Ford uses a variable displacement oil pump. Even if you change the oil thickness, it isn’t necessary going to increase your oil pressure. It’s still going to command a similar pressure based on conditions.

This is why Ford doesn’t add an oil pressure gauge to most vehicles anymore. People assume the pressure is lower than it should be.

I attached a PDF from the workshop manual that better describes the oil system and how it works.

Thanks for the PDF, that’s an interesting design. I dont think this addresses my concerns though. What I posted is about oil pressure drop due to oil passage clearances being on the high end of spec. Car could be thinking it’s providing X oil pressure but the reality is that it’s not. I can tell you, on the raptor the oil gage is the lowest I’ve seen on any of my vehicles without the light coming on. Being the variable timing cams are controlled via high pressure oil…. 2 and 2 = 4.

I 100% could be wrong here. The failure of these components doesn’t make sense and I don’t see a pattern. New cars do it or you could end up with failure at 60k miles. Seems to this has to be related to some sort of tolerance issue.

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[Aonarch]

My cam phasers are getting pretty noisy on start up. 12k miles!

 

[Madman1133]

My cam phasers are getting pretty noisy on start up. 12k miles!

Maybe throw a obd2 scanner on it and see what oil pressure looks Ike at start up and idle. Would be good to see what going bad looks like and compare to what a good truck looks like. Maybe there is a correlation.

 

[Tricky Mike]

It is obvious Ford has no fix for the cam phasor issue! If they had the ability to improve and fix a bolt on part that would eliminate thousands of dollars in repairs they would. It has to be a bigger issue than the phasor itself. The phasor failure is just the result of the issue. We are still seeing 2.7 cam phasor failures on new vehicles, whether it be Bronco's or F150'S. The problem is not always fixed by installing the updated phasor,, some have had multiple replacements.
I believe we can all agree the phasor stops rattling when oil is present in the phasor. This may take 1-5 seconds and the the rattle stops. I think, and mind you this is just my opinion that there is some sort of oil flow issue at startup if everything is not perfect. This could be cylinder head to block engagement of the oil passage and to the phasor. That's my theory and why the phasor replacement itself may not fix the issue long-term. So, for me what I do it prime the system for the first start of the day. This way the phasor has oil present before the engine fires and rpm's are 500 plus. I believe this may help but have no proof for my hypothesis.
However it is safe to say that there are manufactures in the auto industry that can and are manufacturing cam phasors that do not fail.

20 years later and massive dollars thrown at it and they never solved the 5.4 phaser issues either. You know what Ford engine doesn't have phaser issues? The Mazda based 2.3L. There's something rotten in the base engineering at Ford and phasers are just a symptom.

 

[Aonarch]

20 years later and massive dollars thrown at it and they never solved the 5.4 phaser issues either. You know what Ford engine doesn't have phaser issues? The Mazda based 2.3L. There's something rotten in the base engineering at Ford and phasers are just a symptom.

5.0l doesn't have them either.

I'm planning on picking up a 5.0l Tremor F-150 and supercharging it soon.

 

[Ducati1098]

Thanks for the PDF, that’s an interesting design. I dont think this addresses my concerns though. What I posted is about oil pressure drop due to oil passage clearances being on the high end of spec. Car could be thinking it’s providing X oil pressure but the reality is that it’s not. I can tell you, on the raptor the oil gage is the lowest I’ve seen on any of my vehicles without the light coming on. Being the variable timing cams are controlled via high pressure oil…. 2 and 2 = 4.

I 100% could be wrong here. The failure of these components doesn’t make sense and I don’t see a pattern. New cars do it or you could end up with failure at 60k miles. Seems to this has to be related to some sort of tolerance issue.

Yeah I don’t know. It may be a tolerance issue.
But that also means that the same tolerance issue has to be present on multiple different engines. The 2.7/3.0 are far from the only engines that have this issue

 

[Ducati1098]

5.0l doesn't have them either.

I'm planning on picking up a 5.0l Tremor F-150 and supercharging it soon.

Uhhh yes they do lol
Maybe not as common but 5.0’s definitely have phaser issues.

 

[Madman1133]

20 years later and massive dollars thrown at it and they never solved the 5.4 phaser issues either. You know what Ford engine doesn't have phaser issues? The Mazda based 2.3L. There's something rotten in the base engineering at Ford and phasers are just a symptom.

Agree, it’s freaking insanity!!

 

[Aonarch]

Uhhh yes they do lol
Maybe not as common but 5.0’s definitely have phaser issues.

Damn you for bringing a dose of reality into my fantasy.

 

[Ducati1098]

Damn you for bringing a dose of reality into my fantasy.

Sorry lol
It’s definitely not something I would be as worried about like the 2.7/3.0
So I say still get it and put a big old supercharger on it!
I almost recently bought a regular cab short box XL and did something similar

 

[Madman1133]

Yeah I don’t know. It may be a tolerance issue.
But that also means that the same tolerance issue has to be present on multiple different engines. The 2.7/3.0 are far from the only engines that have this issue

Yeah, it’s just a theory. I know guys with old school rebuild deal with this crap all the time. See dudes spin bearings due to larger gaps in the bearing. Liquid takes the path of least resistance. Anyway, who knows. I could be way off here. I know I saw guys saying oil modifiers from Amazon were “fixing” the issue. Only thing that could be doing is changing the properties of the oil to improve consistent oil pressures.

 

[Madman1133]

Damn you for bringing a dose of reality into my fantasy.

That engine is a freaking beast man. I can only attest to the older 5.0 but it definitely had the problem. Ticking time bomb. If I remember right, on the 5.0 when they go they take the whole timing system. It blows the engine basically. Just fix it if you hear them but have fun with that motor. lol.

 

[Ducati1098]

Yeah, it’s just a theory. I know guys with old school rebuild deal with this crap all the time. See dudes spin bearings due to larger gaps in the bearing. Liquid takes the path of least resistance. Anyway, who knows. I could be way off here. I know I saw guys saying oil modifiers from Amazon were “fixing” the issue. Only thing that could be doing is changing the properties of the oil to improve consistent oil pressures.

Yeah I think any oil additive that “fixes” a phaser rattle is just a very large coincidence, and not actually fixing anything.

 

[Tricky Mike]

Uhhh yes they do lol
Maybe not as common but 5.0’s definitely have phaser issues.

Outside of the V10 (which was spared from having them), are there any gas Ford V engines that are safe? I know the 3.5 is notorious. I assume the 7.3/6.8 V8s are, being cam in block.

 

[Aonarch]

Outside of the V10 (which was spared from having them), are there any gas Ford V engines that are safe? I know the 3.5 is notorious.

So pretty much all modern Ford V's have issues, whether cam phases, or something else, like the 7.3l cam/ lifter issues?

Chevy's AFM is garbage. I personally had a new Camaro SS catch on fire after it the system malfunctioned.

Dodge has the Hemi tick. Cam destroys itself.

So all of the big 3 have V issues?

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