Power-Up Update 4.2.2.1

[CarGuy]

It’s a rolling distribution as to not overload the infrastructure supporting the vehicles. Can take weeks/months depending what else is in the queue, package size, take rate, etc.

Sponsored

 

[widnere12]

We are talking about very small updates and not in the millions of units. There’s no reason updates couldn’t be sent in mass or at least downloaded on demand similar to an iPhone update

 

[sportcoupe]

OTA updates are rolled out randomly and not available to everyone at the same time.

I might agree with that but I am two updates behind.

4.2.1.1 is my version
4.2.2.1 (missed)
4.2.2.2 (missed)

 

[Ducati1098]

I might agree with that but I am two updates behind.

4.2.1.1 is my version
4.2.2.1 (missed)
4.2.2.2 (missed)

There are some people still on 2.x and others still on 3.x

 

[CarGuy]

We are talking about very small updates and not in the millions of units. There’s no reason updates couldn’t be sent in mass or at least downloaded on demand similar to an iPhone update

It’s is millions of units. The infrastructure is shared across all Ford/Lincoln vehicles that allow for OTA updates, not just Broncos.

 

[CarGuy]

As a comparison, I have two 2021 Mercedes that have OTA updates and both get frequent updates within days of each other consistently. I never see any disparity between the two. As noted in another post, Ford has a lot more vehicles on the road requiring updates.

 

[widnere12]

It’s is millions of units. The infrastructure is shared across all Ford/Lincoln vehicles that allow for OTA updates, not just Broncos.

if we try to include all models across all brands that number would be true, but each vehicle gets its own updates. Bronco does not get Lincoln updates or even Mach-e updates. It would make sense not to roll all of those out together.

But when we just take the subset of Broncos, I don’t think that there are even 400,000 total manufactured on the road (could be wrong).

I personally don’t see a reason that there couldn’t be a “update now” button added to the screen of every bronco that would allow users to update on demand.

generally, the real reason for rolling updates is not because of bandwidth or packet issues, but because software companies are concerned, they may have missed a glitch or bug, and they don’t want to “brick” everybody’s vehicle at once. They would rather send out a small sampling and see what sort of problems come up. So in a sense people who get them early become beta testers without signing up.

 

[CarGuy]

if we try to include all models across all brands that number would be true, but each vehicle gets its own updates. Bronco does not get Lincoln updates or even Mach-e updates. It would make sense not to roll all of those out together.

But when we just take the subset of Broncos, I don’t think that there are even 400,000 total manufactured on the road (could be wrong).

I personally don’t see a reason that there couldn’t be a “update now” button added to the screen of every bronco that would allow users to update on demand.

generally, the real reason for rolling updates is not because of bandwidth or packet issues, but because software companies are concerned, they may have missed a glitch or bug, and they don’t want to “brick” everybody’s vehicle at once. They would rather send out a small sampling and see what sort of problems come up. So in a sense people who get them early become beta testers without signing up.

It’s a shared infrastructure. There’s no separate network for Broncos. Ford, and other vendors, are doing updates frequently. I agree they slow go early in the distribution to make sure nothing breaks in spectacular fashion, but this is not a “world is my beta” effort.

 

[widnere12]

Apple, google and android all have their own internal shared infrastructure and literally updates hundreds of millions of units worldwide

Xbox and PlayStation do the same.

YouTube, Netflix, Disney, Hulu, etc all have shared infrastructure is all users to download terabytes of data simultaneously.

The same holds true for other electronic devices, but then others choose to go for “rolling updates”.

The only thing stopping the infrastructure from allowing simultaneous downloads is if the infrastructure is created in a way that intentionally stops it

 

[CarGuy]

Bad comparison - software distribution/updates is not a Ford core competency (yet). Do you really think Ford is utilizing high speed/bandwidth cellular in the cars. They are utilizing the most cost effective solution across the platform, since it’s an expense to them. Regarding the other firms you mention, software distribution and streaming is their core business…hence they have a large investment in the infrastructure supporting it.

 

[widnere12]

Bad comparison - software distribution/updates is not a Ford core competency (yet). Do you really think Ford is utilizing high speed/bandwidth cellular in the cars. They are utilizing the most cost effective solution across the platform, since it’s an expense to them. Regarding the other firms you mention, software distribution and streaming is their core business…hence they have a large investment in the infrastructure supporting it.

I can see we are likely going in circles here, and its ok. We just disagree.

In my opinion, you actually prove my point for me. Its not a core competency and the platform is not built as such. That is a design choice. It would not be a hard task for a software engineering department to set up an on-demand system. Even if it did just put you in a que, it would solve the issue of people getting stuck 8 update-generations behind.

I believe the last article I read shows that Sync4 vehicles all use 4G-LTE cellular (if equipped) and 802.11n Wi-Fi modems. While I am sure that neither uses the latest ROG gaming chipsets, Both are adequate for full upload/download. So much so, that I can operate a laptop or an ipad on the Bronco's Internet while my kids play games or download a movie on it.

The pieces are all there. They just need to commit to investing in getting this right... (although admittedly when they do, someone will still tell them that they did it wrong ... LOL)

Anyways... Thanks for the good conversation on the subject... Have a great one

 

[CarGuy]

I can see we are likely going in circles here, and its ok. We just disagree.

In my opinion, you actually prove my point for me. Its not a core competency and the platform is not built as such. That is a design choice. It would not be a hard task for a software engineering department to set up an on-demand system. Even if it did just put you in a que, it would solve the issue of people getting stuck 8 update-generations behind.

I believe the last article I read shows that Sync4 vehicles all use 4G-LTE cellular (if equipped) and 802.11n Wi-Fi modems. While I am sure that neither uses the latest ROG gaming chipsets, Both are adequate for full upload/download. So much so, that I can operate a laptop or an ipad on the Bronco's Internet while my kids play games or download a movie on it.

The pieces are all there. They just need to commit to investing in getting this right... (although admittedly when they do, someone will still tell them that they did it wrong ... LOL)

Anyways... Thanks for the good conversation on the subject... Have a great one

My last point on this topic, connect your truck to your home Wi-Fi and fire up a packet sniffer/capture….lots of chatter from many (enough said).

Agreed, good discussion.

 

[userdude]

You're wrong about Google/Android (Android is a Google product). Most of Google's update distribution is internal; Android devices in fact rarely gets updates, as opposed to Apple's iOS.

Content distribution networks are a completely different animal from OS distribution; what Ford is doing is more akin to a Windows, iOS or Mac OS update than Netflix or Hulu. The complexity there are the large number of distribution channels they support, e.g., putting a Netflix app on a bunch of different OSes and browsers. CDN's are very complex at the mid tier, not so much at the client.

(Being able to supply the downloadable update is a CDN procedure, of course, which is the noted bottleneck in @Ducati0927's comment; unwillingness to invest in the ability of millions to access a download stream. I think it's more a combination of fear of the update going out too quickly and killing cars before it can be stopped, which happens with OS updates now and then, and a lack of interest. A poor CDN capacity is more convenient than a seemingly "expensive", hundreds of millions at most, overhead, IMO.)

I highly suspect the problem here is simply Ford. I think I haven't gotten an update since April because I disabled the wonky and possibly broken "wireless internet connection", because it broke/interfered with a bunch of stuff when I turned it on. That is, to try a service (their CDN, in fact) that just wasn't compelling and didn't work well, either.

So. Where did Ford go wrong? Probably outsourcing to lowest bidder their entertainment hardware/software/OS. (AFAIU it's offshored.) Probably underwhelming technology choices made by company bureaucrats in silos for selfish, self-serving reasons.

There you go: Ford is a place where big egos go to swing their weight. Maybe if they had outsourced this part of their tech to, say, Apple, we'd be in a different spot. But Apple takes years if not decades to work this stuff out, it just has a tendency to work because of that.

There isn't really a plausible reason, even severely anemic distribution capacity, without considering Ford is the one that made those decisions to end up there in the first place. It could get better, but probably won't, because it doesn't burnish anyone's buckle making OS updates on their cars easier/more consistent, at least until there's someone's big bonus on the line. We'll see that when OTA updates push a lot of revenue. Which will be the suck, for sure.

 

[CarGuy]

Well stated. Ford does not own or control the distribution infrastructure/channel. Having a 4G LTE chipset does not mean you will get max throughput. The carrier can/will throttle speeds based on many factors, including business plans purchased - e.g., lower speeds for cost savings. Reliable, consistent software distribution can be complicated - lots of moving parts. Can you really trust a company that gave you the “double honk”

 

[userdude]

Well stated. Ford does not own or control the distribution infrastructure/channel. Having a 4G LTE chipset does not mean you will get max throughput. The carrier can/will throttle speeds based on many factors, including business plans purchased - e.g., lower speeds for cost savings. Reliable, consistent software distribution can be complicated - lots of moving parts. Can you really trust a company that gave you the “double honk”

I don't know it has to do with the last mile limitations (can you get updates over mobile networks?). The modality problem is more a symptom of the complication of vehicles that, for a hundred years, were not networked and now have to be.

You've got wired, plugging your vehicle into a local ethernet; you've got wireless, connecting it to a wireless network; you've got mobile network (which you, not Ford, will pay for), and you've got maybe some near-field connections like Bluetooth (using a wired network for connectivity). That's all pretty complicated, and it's only made worse when the technology isn't well integrated, as my Bronco's seems to be.

My bigger concern is Ford not supporting the OS in five or ten years and getting no updates, and being unable to upgrade. Forced obsolescence by technology fiat. Maybe that's why there's a physical speed gauge on the dash, but I doubt it.

Let's note, a CDN exists to place the content as close as possible to as many of the client's accessing it as possible. That means copies at several nodes spread over the internet at large, physical distribution by duplication. It's a backhaul op. I suspect Ford, in it's infinite wisdom, prefers not to tangle with ISPs on this point, who will probably have their hand out. See: Netflix.

With savvy and inspired thinking, these problems could be solved. (How about going to a dealership and getting it loaded during a service? ) The will has to exist, and as I said, when it's a cost center nobody at Ford wants to own it more than likely. But when it drives revenue...

Sponsored