Damage while using winch on improperly installed Rough Country High Mount

[cynicalrider]

That's exactly how I built the hidden winch mount for my Tacoma, it's not going anywhere and is still technically "bolt-on", but I sleeved and plated the frame.

Those bolt-on winch mounts for the Broncos are so cantilevered out and above the bumper attachment points I can't see how any upward pull would not bend something, especially with a 5K rig that's stuck good. I've had to make dead pulls with the winch point 12' up in a tree pulling at a 45' angle before........

I've always built my winch mounts so the spool was as close to centerline of the frame rails as possible, I realize that's a tall task on the G6's......so we ride with friends with winches and carry a Bubba Rope .

Nice first gen, the beauty of 1st gen's is we almost always had to fabricate our own shit or are too cheap/stubborn to pony up the dough for the fancy stuff.

The majority of my build is custom in one way or another.

IMG_5617 by Michael Halat, on Flickr

That must of bin a fun time. My last jeep was just for daily driving, then light trail riding and somehow wound up caged and at the start line of KOH. When my wife got her bronco 2 months ago, I was looking at it and all she said was NO not gonna happen. A couple weeks later she found a Braptor at a local dealer I was at buying clips and next thing it wound up in my driveway. Ill wait a year or so before I even think about building it.

When I floated the idea of a Bronco to my wife as the designated "family camp vehicle" her words were "Okay, but it CANNOT become a project like your truck..."

So I read through the whole thread and my impression before I started reading is Rough Country is like Harbor Freight of the 4wd world. Don't get me wrong, it has it's place and I have bought products from them. But there is no way for the price that they can research and test like the more expensive companies like Warn, AEV, ARB etc. I'm not saying those companies don't build to a price as well, but they seem to take their time developing products and are probably afraid of getting sued.

Check out this AEV winch bumper on my Bison:

I know AEV worked with GM to develop it, but Warn worked with Ford to develop theirs.

So my biggest problem is I don't know enough about engineering to look at these kind of products and tell if they are safe and not going to damage my vehicle.

But I want to thank everyone for their input here, I learned a lot and gained a lot of respect for many here and the OP, who is man enough to admit his mistake in public and concerned that he called wolf. Don't worry about it, this is probably the most educational thread in this forum.

I've been thinking about the RC Hidden Winch, and they main things that stopped me was the shitty to no access to the free spool clutch, that and I love the ARB Summit Bumper, but just can't afford it at this time. Either way the LOD brackets look like nice insurance.

The RC hidden winch has been my top pick too but yeah the free spool access is a concern. Especially if it is partially submerged in water/ice.

It makes me think of this time I had a hard time getting to the free spool and winch plug in a situation on a friends rig.

Yep, mine had the same appearance. I cleaned up some of the welds and slag on there before I installed my fairlead. What I really don't like is that there's no room for a conventional fairlead in there, only the RC, and it's certainly not the nicest fairlead I've seen. Very abrupt chamfering and none on the backside (though it's not 100% necessary on the back as long as your line is well centered). What I'd like to have is the Yankum grooved fairlead and I toyed with the idea of just getting longer bolts and using the RC fairlead as a spacer so it would fit...but I think that would really put the yankum fairlead in peril and unprotected on the rocks. I'm not super happy with it, but it's still one of the best options currently for a Bronco in my opinion.



It's really not that big of a deal to power spool it out, especially with a wireless controller. The Apex 12K unspools fairly quickly under power, and a lot of hidden winches have to be power spooled out in other vehicles too. Warn makes a winch with a wireless actuator for the clutch, presumably geared toward hidden winch mounts, so if it would fit in the RC tray that would be the ideal setup aside from cost. There are benefits to a hidden winch, such as keeping your winch and line cleaner, less UV damage with synthetic line, better clearance angles in some cases, more protected from trail damage, lower CG and better weight distribution, etc. which can outweigh the negatives of being able to reach the clutch lever depending on how important all that is to you.

Personally, if you're still on the fence, I'd wait and see what Lobo does with their hidden winch setup before making a decision. It looks real promising, especially if combined with a high mount intercooler.

I'm sorry I don't think I would like any winch that I needed to spool out under power. There is so much more risk in a situation like that IMO for things to go wrong. Spooling out under power generates heat, add that to now load on the winch when you actually need it and you might prematurely overheat it. Typically whenever the winch comes out it's because shit has gone sideways and time is of the essence. I don't want to wait for it to unspool even if it's fast when I can turn the clutch and run a line. Not to mention if your vehicle has lost power for some reason and you need to run an emergency line to hold it in place real quick (give or take a few inches maybe) you can free spool, hook up to something safe and lock it back in. Then if whatever traction you had gives way you at least have an emergency tether out there.

My hope for mine when I get it is to keep the factory MOD bumper a while but go the hidden winch route. Keeps the pull in line with the frame, and I just need to figure out what level of difficulty it will be to grab the clutch handle.

Also even if it was a mistake thank you OP for this thread, I killed a solid time at work reading it and it's been enjoyable to see these discussions when it comes to really putting this truck through it's paces.

Sponsored

 

[huey]

Just the relative flatness of each point, it should take any ground slope out of it. Say one measures 90 degrees, one 87, one 85, etc.

gottcha
all those slots / holes are in the same plane on the front plate surface in cad
the front surface should be 90 degress to the the top and side flange on the bracket
I don't have an angle finder here at work but i can check later on the physical frame

 

[01tundra]

This is the surface the mount ears sit on, without the spacers it's not flat and solid.

I'm not following why they milled the bolt area down only to have to add spacers to get it back flat.

Since I've never had our bumper off I'm sure I'm missing something obvious....but I'm not seeing it?

 

[Snacktime]

@cynicalrider you can fab a clutch handle relocation with a couple of steering shaft u-joints from ebay for $100. The whole reason I have not bought into the hidden winch is not being able to see the spool. My luck I would destroy the winch doing a side pull.

 

[MillerAndCheeto]

I feel like such a clown. I almost hope my horn face plates are bent a little so I can save a little face!

If you don't mind checking (if your bumper is still off), you might want to take a peak at the bottom of the square frame where the horns mount. I ran some stress calculations and while the top of the square frame would experience relatively mild tensile force, the bottom of the frame would have been impacted with quite substantial compressive forces as the winch pull applied a strong moment-arm to the front of the frame/mounting plate. Pulling at the top of the frame and pushing into the bottom of the frame.

Theoretically this compressive force is WELL within the limits of mild steel, however I made a lot of assumptions, and this is also part of the crumple zone so I'm not sure how that would affect the yield strength of the steel. This could be why the Ford-Warn design adds that bracket at the bottom of the winch design, sending those compressive forces into the part of the frame that is beyond the crumple zone.

Anyway, since you seem to be the guinea pig on this one (and we are all learning a great deal), if you could take a look at the underside of the frame mounting area and look for any signs of deformation, that would be appreciated.

 

[Tricky Dick]

I'm not following why they milled the bolt area down only to have to add spacers to get it back flat.

Since I've never had our bumper off I'm sure I'm missing something obvious....but I'm not seeing it?

The milled piece is the OEM shackle tab, I can't speak to why it's designed that way but RC had to use spacers to work around it.

If you don't mind checking (if your bumper is still off), you might want to take a peak at the bottom of the square frame where the horns mount. I ran some stress calculations and while the top of the square frame would experience relatively mild tensile force, the bottom of the frame would have been impacted with quite substantial compressive forces as the winch pull applied a strong moment-arm to the front of the frame/mounting plate. Pulling at the top of the frame and pushing into the bottom of the frame.

Theoretically this compressive force is WELL within the limits of mild steel, however I made a lot of assumptions, and this is also part of the crumple zone so I'm not sure how that would affect the yield strength of the steel. This could be why the Ford-Warn design adds that bracket at the bottom of the winch design, sending those compressive forces into the part of the frame that is beyond the crumple zone.

Anyway, since you seem to be the guinea pig on this one (and we are all learning a great deal), if you could take a look at the underside of the frame mounting area and look for any signs of deformation, that would be appreciated.

I will look it over and report back.

 

[huey]

Theoretically this compressive force is WELL within the limits of mild steel, however I made a lot of assumptions, and this is also part of the crumple zone so I'm not sure how that would affect the yield strength of the steel. This could be why the Ford-Warn design adds that bracket at the bottom of the winch design, sending those compressive forces into the part of the frame that is beyond the crumple zone.

the steel in that section is a high strength low alloy variety
if you want to fine tune your assumptions on yield strength let me know

 

[‘21OBX]

OK....so this is highly embarrassing and I feel like a total idiot but I need to come clean. At least some good discussion became of it and my Bronco is undamaged. I still believe after seeing the DV8 bumper video, this scare, and how Ford does it from the factory, that LOD plates or similar are wise.

I got it dissembled and it turns out this is 100% on me.

I left out some very crucial parts. I don't know how I missed them, but when I went digging through the old box they were there, shiny and new.

I remember dropping one or two of those while installing and. Chasing them across the pavement . Well at least you didn’t hurt the Bronco’s structure.

 

[cynicalrider]

@cynicalrider you can fab a clutch handle relocation with a couple of steering shaft u-joints from ebay for $100. The whole reason I have not bought into the hidden winch is not being able to see the spool. My luck I would destroy the winch doing a side pull.

That's not a bad idea. I'd make my own for cheaper with some HF socket u joints and my welder though I think...

Good point on not being able to see the spool. Can always add paint or warning tape when getting close to just a full wrap on the drum, and realistically if you are doing a side pull it's because you HAVE to and not want to so you would only do it for a really short run.

 

[MillerAndCheeto]

the steel in that section is a high strength low alloy variety
if you want to fine tune your assumptions on yield strength let me know

Thank you - I assumed ultimate tensile strength of 400 - 550 MPa and compressive strength of 200 - 400 MPa. For HSLA would you assume it's pushing on the upper edge of these values?

 

[huey]

Thank you - I assumed ultimate tensile strength of 400 - 550 MPa and compressive strength of 200 - 400 MPa. For HSLA would you assume it's pushing on the upper edge of these values?

good assumption - most definitely the upper limits.....all the way up

 

[swooshdave]

@Tricky Dick You may need to edit the thread title again.

 

[Tricky Dick]

@Tricky Dick You may need to edit the thread title again.

It's possible. Clearly most (maybe all) of the bend was in the mount ears, but this isn't settled yet.

 

[swooshdave]

It's possible. Clearly most (maybe all) of the bend was in the mount ears, but this isn't settled yet.

Bent my mount ears because I thought the spacers were wedding rings and I don't have sister wives with the Rough Country High Mount during winch pull

 

[Tricky Dick]

Bent my mount ears because I thought the spacers were wedding rings and I don't have sister wives with the Rough Country High Mount during winch pull

A little short but nailed it.

Sponsored