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Cam Phaser Theory

Madman1133

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So my brand new bronco raptor has phaser issues at 2400 miles. The engine is now being replaced due to improper installation and valve / head damage.

I’ve been reading posts and racking my brain on how this can happen and here is my thoughts. By the way I’m not a mechanic. Just a car enthusiast that knows a lot about high performance engines and engine bearing.

What I noticed on this engine day one is the oil pressure was never what I would consider normal. It always seemed very low especially on start. My suspicion is that the reason this is hard for ford to fix is that the issue MAY NOT be with the design of the phaser itself. The phaser may be the victim of a quality issue with things like cam bearings. I suspect the clearance is wrong or at least on the verge or being out of spec on some engines and with these light weight oils it just can’t build the right pressure for the phaser. I’ve see LS engines at 700 hp with a rebuild be within GM “spec” that can’t build oil pressure when these passages are are at the high end. Something like .003 on the bearing can cause shit like this.

Just a theory.

one other interesting fact. The jaguar 5.0 engine use to suffer this same fate. Guess who made that engine. lol ford

The engine on my bronco is actually getting replaced. I’m debating going with a heavier weight oil right after break in to see if it helps the oil pressure
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Fordified1

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Feasible. I’d keep your oil viscosity choice to yourself in case you have another failure so Ford can’t use that knowledge against you.

Also FYI, cam phasers can bypass enough oil themselves to cause low oil pressure. So is it bearing clearances or cam phasers themselves causing low pressure?

My buddy at work lost an F150 Raptor engine to low oil pressure caused by the cam phasers. It was out of warranty and I believe he spent about $12K on a new engine. Ouch. He bought a hybrid Toyota to replace it. (I give him shit of course)
 

DUSTYcazOREGON

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Sorry you went through this. I hope it never happens to me, I love my Bronco. But if it did....I would get it fixed and then trade it in immediately.
 
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Madman1133

Madman1133

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Feasible. I’d keep your oil viscosity choice to yourself in case you have another failure so Ford can’t use that knowledge against you.

Also FYI, cam phasers can bypass enough oil themselves to cause low oil pressure. So is it bearing clearances or cam phasers themselves causing low pressure?

My buddy at work lost an F150 Raptor engine to low oil pressure caused by the cam phasers. It was out of warranty and I believe he spent about $12K on a new engine. Ouch. He bought a hybrid Toyota to replace it. (I give him shit of course)
All good points, I could see the phasers not retaining oil pressure causing the whole system to starve. I hear you on the oil weight, valid point. I’ll retract what I said above, I will only run the manufacturer spec oil weight.

Damn!!! 12k…. I’d be pist. Honestly I’d probably do something similar to your buddy at this point. The Toyota Tacoma has a lon travel suspension kit that is reasonably priced and I see these things all over the trails. Love the bronco though, I just can’t have something that falls over if I look at it wrong.
 

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Madman1133

Madman1133

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What was improperly installed?
i honestly don’t know. I can only speculate that they messed up on the timing chain causing failure. After test drive the engine had a knock you could hear 100 feet away from the bronco. It was coming from the valve cover. :(
 
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Madman1133

Madman1133

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Sorry you went through this. I hope it never happens to me, I love my Bronco. But if it did....I would get it fixed and then trade it in immediately.
thinking the same thing l. Thanks for the condolences. lol
 

Tricky Mike

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All good points, I could see the phasers not retaining oil pressure causing the whole system to starve. I hear you on the oil weight, valid point. I’ll retract what I said above, I will only run the manufacturer spec oil weight.

Damn!!! 12k…. I’d be pist. Honestly I’d probably do something similar to your buddy at this point. The Toyota Tacoma has a lon travel suspension kit that is reasonably priced and I see these things all over the trails. Love the bronco though, I just can’t have something that falls over if I look at it wrong.
Toyotas are hardly a safe bet either.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-toyota-tacoma-transmission-replacement-tsb/
 

Coralhead

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So Raptors have oil pressure gages while the 2.3 and 2.7's do not get them?
 

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Madman1133

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So Raptors have oil pressure gages while the 2.3 and 2.7's do not get them?
Sounds like it. The raptor has the gage and I can even go digital.
 

adam1991

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He bought a hybrid Toyota to replace it. (I give him shit of course)
Of course--because it wasn't YOUR twelve grand.

Ponder THAT. What would you do if Ford gave you a $12K headache?
 
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Madman1133

Madman1133

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Of course--because it wasn't YOUR twelve grand.

Ponder THAT. What would you do if Ford gave you a $12K headache?
lol buy a gm or Toyota.
 

adam1991

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TLO

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I don't think there are cam bearings on these.... They spin directly in the aluminum head under oil pressure.
I personally think the oil is draining down to the pan when the engine is off. The cam phasers take a large volume of oil and are high up in the engine, which is why they're failing first.
Of course, I'm just speculating
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