ADV Production Modular Hardtop!

[2023bronco]

as that does sting and hurt that really isn't their fault and should not be blamed. the Blame would be on APG for allowing them one on their build while not fulfilling all the orders that have been waiting years for marketing purposes etc etc .

I don't have a dog in this hunt (I'm waiting on Webastard top #3), but if I was out $7k, I'd be pretty pissed to see an influencer getting a new top from APG for marketing purposes. Anybody who doesn't see the clown show that is APG recently advertising the top with the help of LiteBrite is missing part of the story.

Also, there's something else that isn't making any sense. Either the APG/ADV top is nearly perfect and ready for production (according to what APG and LiteBrite seem to suggest), or it's still a mess. I'd wager on the latter, despite what the influencers are saying.

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[userdude]

Oh I am on no ones side if I am not making that clear enough let me say it. I have no dog in this fight. I am just following along and trying to give a outside view from experience I do have.


I never said anyone was derelict with any ones money but I do think that both parties at this point share blame and know more than both are leading on to give to try and save as much face as one can. At the end of the day that is wrong and just hurts this community more.

If it comes across like I'm on APG's side, be aware what I "know" is what's happened on this thread and APG hasn't been a known part of that until lately. However much blame or whatever to apportion to them for this, no one except the inside players knows.

What I do know, based on the last year+ of this thread, is that ADV has prevaricated repeatedly, and if some of those affected on this thread are to be believed, eventually lied and is now refusing to return the moneys they took for a product they never had to deliver.

My experience with APG is significantly less than that.

Those are the facts as I see them.

I'll also point out that APG is a competitor of yours, as they sell parts that compete with your company. I wouldn't say automatically that makes what you're saying suspect, anymore than I'd claim we know only ADV is at fault, or that APG rigged ADV to fail for their benefit. The main reason I say that, though, is that I "know" you through the forum and wouldn't want to believe negative things about you, not that I know any better based on evidence I feel I know as facts.

 

[chris@pandamotorworks]

I don't have a dog in this hunt (I'm waiting on Webastard top #3), but if I was out $7k, I'd be pretty pissed to see an influencer getting a new top from APG for marketing purposes. Anybody who doesn't see the clown show that is APG recently advertising the top with the help of LiteBrite is missing part of the story.

Also, there's something else that isn't making any sense. Either the APG/ADV top is nearly perfect and ready for production (according to what APG and LiteBrite seem to suggest), or it's still a mess. I'd wager on the latter, despite what the influencers are saying.

Pissed? sure? but to take it out on them when they are offered something they didnt really know much about? wrong. The person to be upset at would be the marketing contact at APG.

 

[2023bronco]

Pissed? sure? but to take it out on them when they are offered something they didnt really know much about? wrong. The person to be upset at would be the marketing contact at APG.

Agree - I'm just pointing out that it's ridiculous at this point for LiteBrite to be defending APG.

 

[chris@pandamotorworks]

If it comes across like I'm on APG's side, be aware what I "know" is what's happened on this thread and APG hasn't been a known part of that until lately. However much blame or whatever to apportion to them for this, no one except the inside players knows.

What I do know, based on the last year+ of this thread, is that ADV has prevaricated repeatedly, and if some of those affected on this thread are to be believed, eventually lied and is now refusing to return the moneys they took for products they never had to deliver.

My experience with APG is significantly less than that.

Those are the facts as I see them.

Look its easy to blame the person that took the money. It happens all the time with backorders to this day because we are perceived as liars when the manufacture doesnt meet their end of the bargain by getting them to us in the timeline they said they would.

In light ADV was known as both the money taker and manufacture until they what we can see were tired of being dealt a bad hand and brought it to light. The refund issue I dont agree with but they spent who knows how much marketing this top and then who knows refunding people from failed updates and delivery's from what seems to be a short coming of the now brought to light partner. To be mad regardless of impact is 100% fair but to lime light one side based on them taking the money isnt 100% fair I feel if looking at the entire picture.

 

[userdude]

Look its easy to blame the person that took the money. It happens all the time with backorders to this day because we are perceived as liars when the manufacture doesnt meet their end of the bargain by getting them to us in the timeline they said they would.

In light ADV was known as both the money taker and manufacture until they what we can see were tired of being dealt a bad hand and brought it to light. The refund issue I dont agree with but they spent who knows how much marketing this top and then who knows refunding people from failed updates and delivery's from what seems to be a short coming of the now brought to light partner. To be mad regardless of impact is 100% fair but to lime light one side based on them taking the money isnt 100% fair I feel if looking at the entire picture.

I guess? ADV was playing this the whole time like they were the designer and manufacturer? Now they get credit because they say in a lawsuit they were dupes to the real manufacturer? I can see your position from a distributors point of view, but so far the very basic facts are ADV misrepresented what was going on for literally years, so it's hard for me to just give them a pass.

But if they end up proving otherwise, and APG is solely or significantly at fault, then so be it. We just don't know and it may be years before a better view of the truth is known, if ever.

 

[604Bronco]

But it should be no secret that I am not a fan.

I'm sure you're not their only fan, don't worry.

 

[Ninjak]

There is yet another piece to this. The numbers ADV posted in their case filing are well numbers. Real invoices and receipts need to be presented in court, and I understand that they did not, would not provide that here, though it is also puzzling why they would present a full filing on an internet forum.

 

[userdude]

There is yet another piece to this. The numbers ADV posted in their case filing are well numbers. Real invoices and receipts need to be presented in court, and I understand that they did not, would not provide that here, though it is also puzzling why they would present a full filing on an internet forum.

I was thinking the same thing. May be nothing, but it is something of an omission.

 

[chris@pandamotorworks]

I guess? ADV was playing this the whole time like they were the designer and manufacturer? Now they get credit because they say in a lawsuit they were dupes to the real manufacturer? I can see your position from a distributors point of view, but so far the very basic facts are ADV misrepresented what was going on for literally years, so it's hard for me to just give them a pass.

But if they end up proving otherwise, and APG is solely or significantly at fault, then so be it. We just don't know and it may be years before a better view of the truth is known, if ever.

Thats just business. Do you know how many products are white labeled and produced by someone you may know but have no idea? They should not have to sit there and disclose every contact and manufacture of a product.
Lets not forget that APG was directing sales in June of 2022 so before we say thats not the contract etc APG knew it was listed as a ADV product and was okay with it then so seems like they had a white label approach in this agreement because it was the only way APG could get the quantity sold to make it worth the effort (this is 100% an assumption)

 

[Hokiemike87]

I don't know what to say about the allegation they were 50/50 and that meant they were both patent holders for X. That's what a court will determine, I assume. That's why you have lawyers, and to wit, having competent investors would also presume ADV didn't step into a fiasco, since the investors have something at stake, too. Sometimes selling part of the business or proceeds is the wise thing to do.

However, APG would definitely go a long way to putting the onus for this debacle on ADV if they were to give tops to order holders that haven't been refunded. I would think a court would look on that very favorably, especially if some of ADV's claims don't bear out.

I wouldn't hold your breath on APG doing the right thing after all the lies and deception they have perpetrated so far.

 

[JediMcMuffin]

I'm still disappointed that this product isn't available. I am probably one of few who laid their hands on it. John was very welcoming when I went to go see his prototype early on. I wanted a 1-piece as this thing really is no longer a convertible for me, its a family camping rig.

Edit: Wow, I just looked, I took these photos in September 2022

https://mcnicholas.smugmug.com/Cars/ADV-Fiberglass-Bronco-Hardtop

 

[userdude]

Thats just business. Do you know how many products are white labeled and produced by someone you may know but have no idea? They should not have to sit there and disclose every contact and manufacture of a product.
Lets not forget that APG was directing sales in June of 2022 so before we say thats not the contract etc APG knew it was listed as a ADV product and was okay with it then so seems like they had a white label approach in this agreement because it was the only way APG could get the quantity sold to make it worth the effort (this is 100% an assumption)

On the other hand, if ADV was a true white label legally and there's evidence APG disclosed that, that would presumably be in contravention to their agreement. Maybe that's why APG removed that comment? Maybe it was made at the time when all parties were still confident things were going to work out?

But I return to my point, ADV is a manufacturer; they do make products themselves? Them saying they were producing a top themselves is facially believable, until it wasn't. Nobody seems to have caught that message and it's import at the time, at least as far as I know.

What we don't know is if this was all some scheme to induce ADV on APG's part to commit fraud so they could fund design and manufacturing of a top. Only insiders know what's going on here, and frankly ADV's actions are well known, APG's simply aren't. APG made a factual statement about ADV's pre-orders. That's what we know.

 

[chris@pandamotorworks]

On the other hand, if ADV was a true white label legally and there's evidence APG disclosed that, that would presumably be in contravention to their agreement. Maybe that's why APG removed that comment? Maybe it was made at the time when all parties were still confident things were going to work out?

But I return to my point, ADV is a manufacturer; they do make products themselves? Them saying they were producing a top themselves is facially believable, until it wasn't. Nobody seems to have caught that message and it's import at the time, at least as far as I know.

What we don't know is if this was all some scheme to induce ADV on APG's part to commit fraud so they could fund design and manufacturing of a top. Only insiders know what's going on here, and frankly ADV's actions are well known, APG's simply aren't. APG made a factual statement about ADV's pre-orders. That's what we know.

Oh 100% we dont know minus them but I think at this point with that said I have seen enough that we can not say just because ADV took the money is the only at fault. I think both play a part here and will be interesting to see it played out and hope there is money left to make everyone whole at the end.

about 7 years ago in the Focus ST world a business went belly up and took a bunch of money and left cars for dead. We rescued 2 of them and helped get them on the road and the community all helped out to get them back and we ate the labor on 1 entire build and the transport because we cant stand when this happens. I am no hardtop manufacture and we build cars/ sell parts so we sadly cant do much here other than provide some outside insight and hope everyone get made whole!

 

[KillerPenz]

Screw the book, I wanna see a docuseries!

Screw the docuseries, I'm waiting for my free month of Only Fans!

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