ADV Production Modular Hardtop!

[chris@pandamotorworks]

The accusation is the top you have wouldn't exist without the funding from ADV (allegedly). Hence, fruit from the poison tree. Thing is, it's an accusation at this point, and nobody here has any real idea how APG is funding what they're doing. Just what ADV has said and speculation about what APG did with those alleged funds.

as that does sting and hurt that really isn't their fault and should not be blamed. the Blame would be on APG for allowing them one on their build while not fulfilling all the orders that have been waiting years for marketing purposes etc etc .

Sponsored

 

[chris@pandamotorworks]

An Internet forum depending on size can be considered a widely published forum for accusation. I would say I would not put that theory to the test. Also, it is just bad form to do such when you do not have any proof of anything you are speaking on.

Alas I am not going to speculate on this further, as I said I will sit back and watch this show go on.

as the audience is there to hurt someone's business the smoking gun in case law for slander, libel etc is proving lost sales or stolen sales

 

[userdude]

as that does sting and hurt that really isn't their fault and should not be blamed. the Blame would be on APG for allowing them one on their build while not fulfilling all the orders that have been waiting years for marketing purposes etc etc .

Lite Brite says it's a prototype. At this point I have no reason to think otherwise, since AFAICT there are no production tops that have been delivered.

I agreed with your earlier statement and about reporting to the Cali AG but I don't agree that a statement on a forum and evidence from an adversarial lawsuit automatically means APG was derelict in the way they spent whatever funds they received from ADV.

 

[GMC]

Correct, one of ADV's claims is APG filed a patent without listing ADV as part owner and on this, I do believe APG is to blame. If they were partners 50/50, both parties should be names owners of that patent.

Based on this information, APG has $4M of customers money, they have a top coming out in Sept. Why not just ship those orders out to existing customers. APG's integrity and morals will be shown when/if that top is first sold to the public.

That's the way I see it. Absent a partnership, the only reason for a distributor to pay a manufacturer over $4 million, is to purchase product. I hope this sinks the guilty parties and those affected are made whole somehow.

 

[chris@pandamotorworks]

Lite Brite says it's a prototype. At this point I have no reason to think otherwise, since AFAICT there are no production tops that have been delivered.

I agreed with your earlier statement and about reporting to the Cali AG but I don't agree that a statement on a forum and evidence from an adversarial lawsuit automatically means APG was derelict in the way they spent whatever funds they received from ADV.

Oh I am on no ones side if I am not making that clear enough let me say it. I have no dog in this fight. I am just following along and trying to give a outside view from experience I do have.


I never said anyone was derelict with any ones money but I do think that both parties at this point share blame and know more than both are leading on to give to try and save as much face as one can. At the end of the day that is wrong and just hurts this community more.

 

[2023bronco]

as that does sting and hurt that really isn't their fault and should not be blamed. the Blame would be on APG for allowing them one on their build while not fulfilling all the orders that have been waiting years for marketing purposes etc etc .

I don't have a dog in this hunt (I'm waiting on Webastard top #3), but if I was out $7k, I'd be pretty pissed to see an influencer getting a new top from APG for marketing purposes. Anybody who doesn't see the clown show that is APG recently advertising the top with the help of LiteBrite is missing part of the story.

Also, there's something else that isn't making any sense. Either the APG/ADV top is nearly perfect and ready for production (according to what APG and LiteBrite seem to suggest), or it's still a mess. I'd wager on the latter, despite what the influencers are saying.

 

[userdude]

Oh I am on no ones side if I am not making that clear enough let me say it. I have no dog in this fight. I am just following along and trying to give a outside view from experience I do have.


I never said anyone was derelict with any ones money but I do think that both parties at this point share blame and know more than both are leading on to give to try and save as much face as one can. At the end of the day that is wrong and just hurts this community more.

If it comes across like I'm on APG's side, be aware what I "know" is what's happened on this thread and APG hasn't been a known part of that until lately. However much blame or whatever to apportion to them for this, no one except the inside players knows.

What I do know, based on the last year+ of this thread, is that ADV has prevaricated repeatedly, and if some of those affected on this thread are to be believed, eventually lied and is now refusing to return the moneys they took for a product they never had to deliver.

My experience with APG is significantly less than that.

Those are the facts as I see them.

I'll also point out that APG is a competitor of yours, as they sell parts that compete with your company. I wouldn't say automatically that makes what you're saying suspect, anymore than I'd claim we know only ADV is at fault, or that APG rigged ADV to fail for their benefit. The main reason I say that, though, is that I "know" you through the forum and wouldn't want to believe negative things about you, not that I know any better based on evidence I feel I know as facts.

 

[chris@pandamotorworks]

I don't have a dog in this hunt (I'm waiting on Webastard top #3), but if I was out $7k, I'd be pretty pissed to see an influencer getting a new top from APG for marketing purposes. Anybody who doesn't see the clown show that is APG recently advertising the top with the help of LiteBrite is missing part of the story.

Also, there's something else that isn't making any sense. Either the APG/ADV top is nearly perfect and ready for production (according to what APG and LiteBrite seem to suggest), or it's still a mess. I'd wager on the latter, despite what the influencers are saying.

Pissed? sure? but to take it out on them when they are offered something they didnt really know much about? wrong. The person to be upset at would be the marketing contact at APG.

 

[2023bronco]

Pissed? sure? but to take it out on them when they are offered something they didnt really know much about? wrong. The person to be upset at would be the marketing contact at APG.

Agree - I'm just pointing out that it's ridiculous at this point for LiteBrite to be defending APG.

 

[chris@pandamotorworks]

If it comes across like I'm on APG's side, be aware what I "know" is what's happened on this thread and APG hasn't been a known part of that until lately. However much blame or whatever to apportion to them for this, no one except the inside players knows.

What I do know, based on the last year+ of this thread, is that ADV has prevaricated repeatedly, and if some of those affected on this thread are to be believed, eventually lied and is now refusing to return the moneys they took for products they never had to deliver.

My experience with APG is significantly less than that.

Those are the facts as I see them.

Look its easy to blame the person that took the money. It happens all the time with backorders to this day because we are perceived as liars when the manufacture doesnt meet their end of the bargain by getting them to us in the timeline they said they would.

In light ADV was known as both the money taker and manufacture until they what we can see were tired of being dealt a bad hand and brought it to light. The refund issue I dont agree with but they spent who knows how much marketing this top and then who knows refunding people from failed updates and delivery's from what seems to be a short coming of the now brought to light partner. To be mad regardless of impact is 100% fair but to lime light one side based on them taking the money isnt 100% fair I feel if looking at the entire picture.

 

[userdude]

Look its easy to blame the person that took the money. It happens all the time with backorders to this day because we are perceived as liars when the manufacture doesnt meet their end of the bargain by getting them to us in the timeline they said they would.

In light ADV was known as both the money taker and manufacture until they what we can see were tired of being dealt a bad hand and brought it to light. The refund issue I dont agree with but they spent who knows how much marketing this top and then who knows refunding people from failed updates and delivery's from what seems to be a short coming of the now brought to light partner. To be mad regardless of impact is 100% fair but to lime light one side based on them taking the money isnt 100% fair I feel if looking at the entire picture.

I guess? ADV was playing this the whole time like they were the designer and manufacturer? Now they get credit because they say in a lawsuit they were dupes to the real manufacturer? I can see your position from a distributors point of view, but so far the very basic facts are ADV misrepresented what was going on for literally years, so it's hard for me to just give them a pass.

But if they end up proving otherwise, and APG is solely or significantly at fault, then so be it. We just don't know and it may be years before a better view of the truth is known, if ever.

 

[604Bronco]

But it should be no secret that I am not a fan.

I'm sure you're not their only fan, don't worry.

 

[Ninjak]

There is yet another piece to this. The numbers ADV posted in their case filing are well numbers. Real invoices and receipts need to be presented in court, and I understand that they did not, would not provide that here, though it is also puzzling why they would present a full filing on an internet forum.

 

[userdude]

There is yet another piece to this. The numbers ADV posted in their case filing are well numbers. Real invoices and receipts need to be presented in court, and I understand that they did not, would not provide that here, though it is also puzzling why they would present a full filing on an internet forum.

I was thinking the same thing. May be nothing, but it is something of an omission.

 

[chris@pandamotorworks]

I guess? ADV was playing this the whole time like they were the designer and manufacturer? Now they get credit because they say in a lawsuit they were dupes to the real manufacturer? I can see your position from a distributors point of view, but so far the very basic facts are ADV misrepresented what was going on for literally years, so it's hard for me to just give them a pass.

But if they end up proving otherwise, and APG is solely or significantly at fault, then so be it. We just don't know and it may be years before a better view of the truth is known, if ever.

Thats just business. Do you know how many products are white labeled and produced by someone you may know but have no idea? They should not have to sit there and disclose every contact and manufacture of a product.
Lets not forget that APG was directing sales in June of 2022 so before we say thats not the contract etc APG knew it was listed as a ADV product and was okay with it then so seems like they had a white label approach in this agreement because it was the only way APG could get the quantity sold to make it worth the effort (this is 100% an assumption)

Sponsored