AC not repaired under warranty because bumper?

[MayhemMike]

Retired HVAC tech. Here is how this works. If they claim there is nothing wrong ( no punctures, disconnect of lines or leaks of any kind) Then this means the system has been proven sealed. If there isn’t any refrigerant in the system and the system is tight as they are claiming then the refrigerant had to be removed. Since no one removed the refrigerant, then their claim of a sealed system is false. Now, the bumper removal and install of an aftermarket bumper does take place right at the condenser for the AC system. I suspect the system isn’t sealed and a leak has been created during the bumper install or afterwards by a bumper component rubbing and creating a leak. . The leak must be small because an actual puncture would have allowed the gas to escape with pressure. As far as “ smelling” the refrigerant, it would again have to be a massive leak to otice a smell. You should be able to inspect the AC system and see refrigerant oil where the leak is. Pressurizing the system with Nitrogen is how a leak can be detected. Pulling a vacuum with a vacuum pump and a thermistor gauge can also provide proof of the systems integrity.

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[BadlandsA51]

I just found the pictures of when I had my bumper off and unless there’s something really different about the bumper you put on, I can’t see how a bumper install would have hurt anything to do with the A/C. Did you ask them what they found to lead them to believe it was the bumper install that caused a leak? I’m the shop foreman at a Ford dealer and in situations like this we’ll take pictures and show the customer what we found. Then explain why warranty won’t cover the repair. Did you buy the Bronco at this dealership?

 

[MrUnprofessional]

I just found the pictures of when I had my bumper off and unless there’s something really different about the bumper you put on, I can’t see how a bumper install would have hurt anything to do with the A/C. Did you ask them what they found to lead them to believe it was the bumper install that caused a leak? I’m the shop foreman at a Ford dealer and in situations like this we’ll take pictures and show the customer what we found. Then explain why warranty won’t cover the repair. Did you buy the Bronco at this dealership?

I'm sitting at the dealer waiting on the service manager now. The tech and service writer said they don't see anything directly that would have caused it but that they think it is the most likely cause. I bought the bronco here but the dealership is under new ownership and flying the Lincoln flag now.

 

[MrUnprofessional]

Retired HVAC tech. Here is how this works. If they claim there is nothing wrong ( no punctures, disconnect of lines or leaks of any kind) Then this means the system has been proven sealed. If there isn’t any refrigerant in the system and the system is tight as they are claiming then the refrigerant had to be removed. Since no one removed the refrigerant, then their claim of a sealed system is false. Now, the bumper removal and install of an aftermarket bumper does take place right at the condenser for the AC system. I suspect the system isn’t sealed and a leak has been created during the bumper install or afterwards by a bumper component rubbing and creating a leak. . The leak must be small because an actual puncture would have allowed the gas to escape with pressure. As far as “ smelling” the refrigerant, it would again have to be a massive leak to otice a smell. You should be able to inspect the AC system and see refrigerant oil where the leak is. Pressurizing the system with Nitrogen is how a leak can be detected. Pulling a vacuum with a vacuum pump and a thermistor gauge can also provide proof of the systems integrity.

The tech just explained to me that the system is pressurized and working now. No leaks detected.

 

[pillar406]

i've heard dealerships claim that ford's warranty reimbursement rate is less than the dealership's shop rate, so it's more profitable to work on other stuff

That's true. The Ford warranty rates are way lower than regular shop rates also the time allowed to complete the work is lower than normal book time. A lot of technicians don't like warranty work for this reason.

 

[BadlandsA51]

I'm sitting at the dealer waiting on the service manager now. The tech and service writer said they don't see anything directly that would have caused it but that they think it is the most likely cause. I bought the bronco here but the dealership is under new ownership and flying the Lincoln flag now.

That’s pretty rich, “we don’t see anything about the bumper that caused the concern but we think it’s the most likely cause”. Hopefully the service manager apologized for the hassle, he sure should have. And now it’s full of refrigerant and working?! Wow!

 

[MrUnprofessional]

That’s pretty rich, “we don’t see anything about the bumper that caused the concern but we think it’s the most likely cause”. Hopefully the service manager apologized for the hassle, he sure should have. And now it’s full of refrigerant and working?! Wow!

That pretty much sums up what happened. Service manager was immediately cool about the whole thing. Had the tech walk him through the diag and came to me to let me know I wouldn't be charged for the repair and to let them know if it acts up again.

 

[BadlandsA51]

That pretty much sums up what happened. Service manager was immediately cool about the whole thing. Had the tech walk him through the diag and came to me to let me know I wouldn't be charged for the repair and to let them know if it acts up again.

Did they ever say what was wrong?

 

[MrUnprofessional]

Did they ever say what was wrong?

Just that the system was completely drained of freon. No idea where it escaped from or how. No visible evidence of leakage and it holds pressure now.

 

[HBTFD]

In a few months or less you’ll know if there is no leak. I’m betting you get hot pretty soon. I hope I’m wrong and you stay cool for a long time.

 

[mcinfantry]

In all my years fixing a/c and even installing vintage air systems I have never ever ever had a completely empty system magically seal and hold refrigerant any substantial length of time after just filling it up . Good luck though

reminds me of
It just needs a little Freon and it works fine

well if it only needs a little, why not put it in???

 

[HoosierDaddy]

i'm always surprised when a dealership tries to deny warranty work. they get paid for the work from Ford, so why turn down income assuming it's a proper claim?

You know it's in all the news articles that Jim Farley stated reducing warranty costs is a top priority?
You are now seeing the fruits of Jim's labor.

Did you think they would actually increase costs by providing a higher quality product?

Ford Corporate will simply deny everything they possibly can, we and the dealers have to live with those decisions.

 

[Tooold]

I've been in the HVAC business for 32 years (buildings not auto). I started as a commercial installer, then became a service tech, then a service manager and finally opened my own company 20yrs ago.

Unless someone RELEASED the charge by accident, or for some reason on purpose, you have a leak. End of story. A nitogen pressure test will show what's going on. End of story. A vacuum test would show a big leak quickly but not a slow leak unless the test was done over a LONG period of time. (Which I'm sure it wasn't).

The big question is: was it low or empty? If it was empty then the (PGA) oil was exposed to air and moisture...not good.

I highly doubt a owner would RELEASE the charge on purpose. By accident, maybe. But that person would be a fool for not letting a tech know what happened.

Like I said, a properly done nitrogen test would show if there's a leak or not. The results would prove if it was released or if there was a true leak.

If it's a leak you have 5 choices.
1. Understand you have a slow leak, fill it and expect it to continue to leak. Repeat next time it gets low. (How often you need to do this? Depends on the size of the leak).
2. Perform a proper leak test and fix it accordingly.
3. Top it off and add a sealing agent. (may or may not work). (only do this if it's a small leak, it's out of warranty and you are unwilling to invest in option 2 or 1).
4. Replace the whole system.
5. Do nothing and not have A/C.

In my opinion, if a proper leak test and repair wasn't performed...they are just kicking the can down the road by topping it off with refrigerant.

If it was empty! Then your oil will most likely will develop acid and kill you compressor over time.
Contaminated oil cost a lot of time and money to fix properly.

Refrigerant leaks suck and are hard to find, especially small ones on low capacity systems.

My bet is this:
1. You have a leak.
2. They couldn't quickly find it using a vacuum test.
3. They tried to point the finger elsewhere to avoid fixing it properly under warranty.
4. When you pushed back...they just filled it.

 

[Canyon Coolers]

$700 is a small price to pay to be allowed to continue the factory warranty on your $70k vehicle that you chose to shade-tree modify in your driveway.

Seriously - that is not judgement, it's financial fact. The dealer (proxy for the manufacturer) can clearly see when someone has messed around with hand tools (a fact shared with me by an expansive Jeep service advisor.)

We all do it, but when they catch us, they're going to use their ace card and not pay for stuff.

This is sarcasm right ? My vehicle isn't remotely stock, never had an issue getting something covered under warranty. Even a pinion seal on a lifted vehicle. Your take on this is just flat wrong and in no way reflects current legal thinking.

 

[Quest]

i'm always surprised when a dealership tries to deny warranty work. they get paid for the work from Ford, so why turn down income assuming it's a proper claim?

According to a family member with decades in auto repair, this is typical and he explained why. Shops that have high warranty repair numbers are required to submit a self-audit justifying the numbers. If there is a gray area in the audit, Ford will then do an Audit of the dealership themselves. This results in various negative consequences he didn't detail. What is a gray area? A repair slip saying anything that could be disagreed with or lacking clear proof of a need for repair. To push back at the manufacturers giving shops shit, he used to take before and after photos of any evidence so they couldn't claim a repair was questionable.

Ford will claim this process is to make sure only real repairs are being performed. In effect, it is to bully dealerships into ignoring any/all issues that can not be easily proven on a repair slip.

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