74WELD Steering Rack Clunking - Check Yours!

[TeocaliMG]

So even with perfect displacement control the rack/pinion must function within reasonable steering effort and lash control. This is completely incumbent on the internals.

People hear billet housing and get all googoo eyed. Primary objective is to control displacements. So question are; is a full housing required to control displacements? Can displacements be reasonably controlled by rack end conditions (just drivers and passengers band aids which may actually be good enough for many)? What is the increasing rate of return on a full housing solution versus just end condition band aids? Those that can answer the last question should be well positioned to provide real solutions customers need.

I think the known bandaid solutions are a step in the right direction in distributing the loads better than the OEM design, at the penalty (potentially) of added steering friction, or maybe slightly reduced rack travel. Frankly those are probably good enough for most!

I also think the billet housing is a good (if not controversial) solution to control excessive displacement in the most severe conditions, but it comes at a $$$ cost, and also a lash cost, which is more what I was getting at above.

The OEM rack, with the yoke bearing, essentially has zero lash at zero (or low) load. Obviously that spring is compressible so there will be lash as load increases, that would be part of the load displacement curve. But it means it won't feel clunky under normal steering reversal. 74Welds Billet rack has actual lash (more for some than others I suppose) at zero/low load, but that lash bottoms out to an extremely stout load/displacement curve (essentially rigid).

I think their intent (and to be fair it seems more successful for some than others) is that actual lash zone at low load be so small it's effectively insignificant, and whatever you do have is just the tradeoff for not worrying about impact loads (at least with respect to the cast housing). Like I said before, i'd love a billet solution that still incorporated a yoke bearing behind the pinion.

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[22broncoraptor]

FWIW, I have the 74Weld rack, no clunking issues. Install date was April 2024. It has over 10,000 miles of crawling, jumping, and street driving on it to date running 40" Nitto's.

 

[TruckCamper]

The entire rack housing seemed like the ultimate solution but now knowing about the pinion gap / clunk less so. Quinn did say in January they were looking into a solution to resolve the issue (possibly with a spring or dynamic tensioner). However, no mention of that since then. It looks like they have moved on to other product development. It is what it is... but I do think people should be informed when spending big money! And they should remedy issues like ours.

I do like the end cap solution. For us it's not practical to carry a bunch of extra parts on cross country trips. But I drive with mechanical sympathy in mind which helps.

 

[SierraBronco]

The entire rack housing seemed like the ultimate solution but now knowing about the pinion gap / clunk less so. Quinn did say in January they were looking into a solution to resolve the issue (possibly with a spring or dynamic tensioner). However, no mention of that since then. It looks like they have moved on to other product development. It is what it is... but I do think people should be informed when spending big money! And they should remedy issues like ours.

I do like the end cap solution. For us it's not practical to carry a bunch of extra parts on cross country trips. But I drive with mechanical sympathy in mind which helps.

Seems like it’s being proven more and more that the customers are, in fact, their testers

 

[TruckCamper]

Here's feedback from Quinn on the steering rack:

We can look at it and see about rebuilding it if you would like. The way we build these is we eliminate the load spring from the rack. We have to put a bit of backlash in the system so the rack and pinion doesn't bind. What you are likely feeling is about .001-.003 of backlash in the system. Most of the time you won't feel this...in some cases you might feel a little bit of a dead spot on flat ground moving the wheel side to side. This is a normal mesh of any gear set. The reason you don't feel this with the factory rack is because it is always supported by the spring. The reason the factory rack fails is also because it is supported by this spring. As the spring compresses the rack is able to come out of mesh with the pinion and this leads to failure. We can try to tighten it up with a new internal bushing. We do check every single rack on a CMM to verify dimensions on the bores as well as overall alignment. The one thing we can't check is variations in each individual rack bar. These don't deviate much, but .001 here and .001 there does add up. I can tell you with a pretty high level of confidence the rack and pinion is not likely to fail. To date we have not seen a single one chip or break. While this doesn't help much with the feel side of it, If you would like us to go though the rack, reinspect everything, we would be happy to do it.

On more thing to look at. I was talking with Bubba from exodus 4x4 this morning. He said he was seeing his alignment change when he would drive the truck hard. He even saw this after he locked the lower cam tabs. He traced it back to the steering. What he found was that the holes for the steering rack in the factory sub frame are a hot dog in a hallway. The rack was shifting side to side in the chassis. He made lockout tabs for them. Welded them into the chassis and had not lost alignment since. He basically said the rack was shifting side to side. Just another thing to look at

 

[ScLeCo]

Here's feedback from Quinn on the steering rack:

We can look at it and see about rebuilding it if you would like. The way we build these is we eliminate the load spring from the rack. We have to put a bit of backlash in the system so the rack and pinion doesn't bind. What you are likely feeling is about .001-.003 of backlash in the system. Most of the time you won't feel this...in some cases you might feel a little bit of a dead spot on flat ground moving the wheel side to side. This is a normal mesh of any gear set. The reason you don't feel this with the factory rack is because it is always supported by the spring. The reason the factory rack fails is also because it is supported by this spring. As the spring compresses the rack is able to come out of mesh with the pinion and this leads to failure. We can try to tighten it up with a new internal bushing. We do check every single rack on a CMM to verify dimensions on the bores as well as overall alignment. The one thing we can't check is variations in each individual rack bar. These don't deviate much, but .001 here and .001 there does add up. I can tell you with a pretty high level of confidence the rack and pinion is not likely to fail. To date we have not seen a single one chip or break. While this doesn't help much with the feel side of it, If you would like us to go though the rack, reinspect everything, we would be happy to do it.

On more thing to look at. I was talking with Bubba from exodus 4x4 this morning. He said he was seeing his alignment change when he would drive the truck hard. He even saw this after he locked the lower cam tabs. He traced it back to the steering. What he found was that the holes for the steering rack in the factory sub frame are a hot dog in a hallway. The rack was shifting side to side in the chassis. He made lockout tabs for them. Welded them into the chassis and had not lost alignment since. He basically said the rack was shifting side to side. Just another thing to look at

I think this explains my steering issue coming off of the Rubicon.

 

[Hummell]

I experienced this today out on the trails. I just got the 74weld stage 1 installed last week and hadn't noticed any of this chatter, clunk, nastiness going on with the steering rack. I was on Dickie Bell for about 8 seconds when I noticed it. I thought something had broken..I could hear it as well as feel it in my steering and in my pedals slightly, which was so strange. It felt loose - like there was something not tightened down, hard to explain. I pulled the car off and looked under there the best I could, but all looked normal. I was a little apprehensive to continue on but the steering otherwise felt fine. Ended up not being an issue other than annoying and some worry out there by myself.

Is there a plan with this yet? For those of you who said they don't have any issues, have you taken the car off the pavement to anything moderately tough? I wouldn't have noticed it at all until today. When I got back on the road leaving, it felt normal again with no clunking or chatter.

Any help here @74Weld? I need someone to assure me that this is normal and fine.

 

[Kristian@74W]

We've never had anyone reach out to us about any noise related to the Stage 1 steering. Stage 1 is just to add support to the rack, it does not affect any of the steering rack mechanism. From the sounds of it this is most likely chattering and feedback coming from a worn belt. I would have it checked out by Ford or a shop to see if your belt is worn. I wouldn't call that common, but with the failures we've seen with Fords OEM racks, it also wouldn't be surprising.

 

[Hummell]

Actually, I don’t think the effing rack is mounted to the subframe. It’s moving back and forth with the wheel. I don’t think this one’s on 74weld, guys.

 

[SierraBronco]

I don’t think this one’s on 74weld, guys.

this is a good thing

 

[Hummell]

this is a good thing

Just got back from the shop and now it's sorted. The rack wasn't completely bolted to the subframe...unbelievable. Sorry @74Weld. Feels solid now.

 

[TruckCamper]

Yeah... Stage 1 won't cause clunking. Issue we're referring to is the gear mesh.

 

[TruckCamper]

No progress on our clunky rack... Quinn quit responding to email after offering to rebuild the rack. Chad (technician) answers the phone (sometimes) and says he needs approval or some excuse to call back (never does).

74Weld has removed the Stage 2 and Stage 3 from their website. Chad claims it is due to the donor factory steering racks costing $3,000 vs $1,000. This makes no sense since I can order a complete Hoss 3.0 rack for $1,000 as a consumer (with tie rods).

What is going on??

 

[Hummell]

What is going on??

Well...basically, you got #$^ed...

What's up with this Quinn dude?

 

[SierraBronco]

Well...basically, you got #$^ed...

What's up with this Quinn dude?

Don’t get me started

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