Stock tune on Bilstein 8112 is garbage; re-tuned with linear piston

[elbroncodor]

I fell for the marketing hype from Bilstein a year ago around the 8112 DSA+. Mechanically they are ground breaking and people had glowing things to say about them on other applications. My bronco is my daily driver and family fun vehicle but I also have a fully built Tacoma on long travel for dedicated offroading, so I thought the 8112 was the perfect solution for daily drive comfort and family fun in a bolt on solution. When I finally got them, I was impressed with the ride zones, but the daily comfort just wasn't there. Everyone was raving how "plush" these were, but the chatter and small bump handling were terrible, even at their softest settings. I tried going to C rated 35s (Toyo AT3, 111Q), getting the lightest wheels I could find (RTR Evo), and was even rolling around town at 28-30 psi, but it was still awful and my wife hated it.

I reached out to Bilstein in case maybe something was wrong but basically their response was "it's a truck; drive faster." Which pissed me off because I've been driving a truck on aftermarket coilovers for 25+ years. I had a friend at ORW that had a relationship with Bilstein reach out to his contact and they were defensive that this is the way they meant it to be.

So I took it to Ian from Wheeleveryweekend and he confirmed and validated what I was saying. The stock tune was low on oil and had tons of air in it. He also is a believer that with the shock's ride zones, the digressive pistons that Bilstein is in love with are not the right choice and that these should have linear pistons. Also you don't need the daily ride zone to be firm because the truck has sway bars.

See the result for yourself after he changed the piston, bled the air, and blocked the holes on the seals on the rear shocks:


I still think this is extremely impressive technology, but I agree with Ian that I would not buy these with the stock tune from Bilstein. He is now offering them on his website pre-tuned with a linear piston. I'm eager to see if Icon and others that are coming out with similar zone control coilovers have a better tuning theory and steal market share from the 8112s.

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[dangerfoot]

Awesome feedback and definitely would not expect QC factors on that level a shock. @Bilstein needs to get this right.

 

[crenca]

Everyone was raving how "plush" these were, but the chatter and small bump handling were terrible, even at their softest settings.

I gotta ask, who is "everyone" ? Every review I have watched or read have hedged and said that while you can set them on the softer side (particularly compared to Bilstein's other offerings) they are still a digressive shock. This means they are never going to be "plush", rather they are designed for anti-dive, anti-sway (roll), etc. and this emphasis can never really be made Cadillac "plush" (with all the dive and roll) of a Cadillac on road, any more than a dedicated 4x4 with a removable top like a Bronco can be made into a quiet highway cruiser...

Now you can take a Bronco, and mod the suspension, weld a hard top and seal it, put insulation in the doors, and run all seasons and it will mimic a highway cruiser like a Cadillac and that's what you did with yours, rebuilt them with linear valving...but I am wondering out loud why you did not just sell them and get King's and valve them like you want them?

He also is a believer that with the shock's ride zones, the digressive pistons that Bilstein is in love with are not the right choice and that these should have linear pistons

No, no they should not. Rather the correct shocks (Kings, Fox, etc.) should have been sold to you in the first place to meet your expectations...

 

[popo_patty]

Maybe you received a set that had some QC issues? I’ve ridden in a stock tune 8112 on a stock bronco and it was amazing. Now it wasn’t a Cadillac ride on pavement and yes, the faster you go, the better it got. But IMO, it was the best riding shock I’ve ever experienced for a stock vehicle.

Going fast, it destroyed the terrain too. In the video you reference, he has 6112 in the title so it confused me a bit too.

 

[elbroncodor]

I gotta ask, who is "everyone" ?

for instance:




on the linear vs digressive point, the advantages of a digressive piston are redundant when you have multiple zones of tuning available to you with the 8112.

 

[crenca]

for instance:

I have seen both of those and both point out these are digressive shocks that are going to to be different (due to being designed to different priorities) then linear or progressive shocks in the ride zone. Sure, there is some salesmanship that on the surface makes it seem these shocks can be everything to everyone but a consumer has to have the basic ability to see/read/hear past such salesmanship.

on the linear vs digressive point, the advantages of a digressive piston are redundant when you have multiple zones of tuning available to you with the 8112.

You say this as if this is fact. This is only true for your preferences - what you are wanting out of a shock. I and others want something else out of a shock, and thus a digressive shock could be exactly what we want even with (especially with) multiple zones of tuning.

What happened here is you made the wrong purchase for your preferences, rebuilt the shocks to your preferences, and are now saying the manufacture messed up because your preferences are the only "right" ones.

All this would be mute with something like a Multimatic electronically programmed shock that would be (almost) infinitely variable and user controlled, but even Multimatic does not sale such a beast - each are only variable to the extant the OEM gives the user control....

 

[elbroncodor]

I have seen both of those and both point out these are digressive shocks that are going to to be different (due to being designed to different priorities) then linear or progressive shocks in the ride zone. Sure, there is some salesmanship that on the surface makes it seem these shocks can be everything to everyone but a consumer has to have the basic ability to see/read/hear past such salesmanship.




You say this as if this is fact. This is only true for your preferences - what you are wanting out of a shock. I and others want something else out of a shock, and thus a digressive shock could be exactly what we want even with (especially with) multiple zones of tuning.

What happened here is you made the wrong purchase for your preferences, rebuilt the shocks to your preferences, and are now saying the manufacture messed up because your preferences are the only "right" ones.

All this would be mute with something like a Multimatic electronically programmed shock that would be (almost) infinitely variable and user controlled, but even Multimatic does not sale such a beast - each are only variable to the extant the OEM gives the user control....

The original bilstein video and those two videos and more market these as the have-your-cake-and-eat-it too solution that sounded like a perfect use case for my scenario. The way it was tuned, with low oil and air in them turned out to not be what they were marketed as. Watch the bilstein podcast video I posted.

Do you own stock in bilstein or something? Why are you getting so bent out of shape about this?

 

[crenca]

@elbroncodor , You (and your rebuilder) are the one wagging your finger at digressive shocks and those who use them telling them " You're doing it wrong"

Look, you wanted a progressive multi-zone shock and what you got was a digressive multi-zone shock. That's on you.

I do agree with both of you that it would be nice if the market had something like the 8112s that was progressive, but right now it doesn't really.

Buyer beware, as always...

 

[elbroncodor]

I do agree with both of you that it would be nice if the market had something like the 8112s that was progressive, but right now it doesn't really.

Good news, he's going to be selling these on his website with this tune. And obviously many people agree because he's had a ton of people reach out about tuning these for the bronco. He was working on my Tacoma and I mentioned the problems I was having with the Bronco and he jumped at the chance to work on it because so many people had reached out.

 

[F-Spot]

The original bilstein video and those two videos and more market these as the have-your-cake-and-eat-it too solution that sounded like a perfect use case for my scenario. The way it was tuned, with low oil and air in them turned out to not be what they were marketed as. Watch the bilstein podcast video I posted.

Do you own stock in bilstein or something? Why are you getting so bent out of shape about this?

I don't have 8112's and have never ridden in a Bronco with them, so I have no personal input on these. However, I did watch Popo-Patty's video and to me, his amazement of the 8112's were for the high speed runs. For the slow speed run he even said the factory Hoss 3.0 was more plush than the 8112. I did not get the feeling he was hyping the 8112's as the do all be all coilover solution...just for the high speed stuff.

 

[elbroncodor]

I don't have 8112's and have never ridden in a Bronco with them, so I have no personal input on these. However, I did watch Popo-Patty's video and to me, his amazement of the 8112's were for the high speed runs. For the slow speed run he even said the factory Hoss 3.0 was more plush than the 8112. I did not get the feeling he was hyping the 8112's as the do all be all coilover solution...just for the high speed stuff.

He's in this thread saying "But IMO, it was the best riding shock I’ve ever experienced for a stock vehicle. " but regardless there was enough out there from Bilstein themselves about how "plush" these were and like I said, I fell for the marketing hype.

I'm also open to the fact that I might have had a poor QC'd pair, as you can see in the instagram video that at high speed they weren't as controlled as I've seen they can be on the Tacoma and Tundra applications. Either way though, there's definitely enough people out there that feel the same way as they are contacting tuners for a better tune.

 

[popo_patty]

He's in this thread saying "But IMO, it was the best riding shock I’ve ever experienced for a stock vehicle. " but regardless there was enough out there from Bilstein themselves about how "plush" these were and like I said, I fell for the marketing hype.

I'm also open to the fact that I might have had a poor QC'd pair, as you can see in the instagram video that at high speed they weren't as controlled as I've seen they can be on the Tacoma and Tundra applications. Either way though, there's definitely enough people out there that feel the same way as they are contacting tuners for a better tune.

Perhaps I should reword it to “best overall”. I wouldn’t say it’s the “plushiest Cadillac riding shock”. I think again that you had a QC issue with your set. Anyway, ride quality is very subjective and I’m glad you are now happy with yours! I have maintained for a few years now that tailoring a shock through tuning to your specific use case is the best way to go if you can afford too.
Enjoy!

 

[87-Z28]

And obviously many people agree because he's had a ton of people reach out about tuning these for the bronco.

Shocks aren’t really tuned for “the bronco”. Spring rate completely controls frequency response, damping has no effect. Springs are tuned to “the bronco” with respect to equivalent static weight.

I have maintained for a few years now that tailoring a shock through tuning to your specific use case is the best way to go if you can afford too.

This. Shocks (damping) are tuned for use case and applies fine control of transmitted forces (comfort) and vehicle displacement (suspension control and characteristics).

unfortunately shock forces and displacements are diametrically apposed. Hence the challenges between comfort and stability.

 

[Beggsie]

I fell for the marketing hype from Bilstein a year ago around the 8112 DSA+. Mechanically they are ground breaking and people had glowing things to say about them on other applications. My bronco is my daily driver and family fun vehicle but I also have a fully built Tacoma on long travel for dedicated offroading, so I thought the 8112 was the perfect solution for daily drive comfort and family fun in a bolt on solution. When I finally got them, I was impressed with the ride zones, but the daily comfort just wasn't there. Everyone was raving how "plush" these were, but the chatter and small bump handling were terrible, even at their softest settings. I tried going to C rated 35s (Toyo AT3, 111Q), getting the lightest wheels I could find (RTR Evo), and was even rolling around town at 28-30 psi, but it was still awful and my wife hated it.

I reached out to Bilstein in case maybe something was wrong but basically their response was "it's a truck; drive faster." Which pissed me off because I've been driving a truck on aftermarket coilovers for 25+ years. I had a friend at ORW that had a relationship with Bilstein reach out to his contact and they were defensive that this is the way they meant it to be.

So I took it to Ian from Wheeleveryweekend and he confirmed and validated what I was saying. The stock tune was low on oil and had tons of air in it. He also is a believer that with the shock's ride zones, the digressive pistons that Bilstein is in love with are not the right choice and that these should have linear pistons. Also you don't need the daily ride zone to be firm because the truck has sway bars.

See the result for yourself after he changed the piston, bled the air, and blocked the holes on the seals on the rear shocks:


I still think this is extremely impressive technology, but I agree with Ian that I would not buy these with the stock tune from Bilstein. He is now offering them on his website pre-tuned with a linear piston. I'm eager to see if Icon and others that are coming out with similar zone control coilovers have a better tuning theory and steal market share from the 8112s.

I'll choose progressive shocks every time.

 

[userdude]

Perhaps I should reword it to “best overall”. I wouldn’t say it’s the “plushiest Cadillac riding shock”. I think again that you had a QC issue with your set. Anyway, ride quality is very subjective and I’m glad you are now happy with yours! I have maintained for a few years now that tailoring a shock through tuning to your specific use case is the best way to go if you can afford too.
Enjoy!

And y'know, to lump your review in with the Bilstein "marketing" is ridiculous. You just said what you thought. Are you paid by Bilstein to do that in some kind've campaign? (I don't know, are you?? )

Anyway, any time one of these "superior" products comes out, there's always disappointment in how they perform in a subset of the buyers. Once read an article about a guy who bought $80k speakers and took a sawzall to them because they weren't perfect! It really does take all kinds.

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