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Stop yappin' and get the 2-door tank stateside.
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Thanks so much for the detailed feedback. Its great when suppliers are willing to share these kinds of details. It also sounds great that you are considering a design with a separate skid plate. Have a look at https://nextventuremotorsports.com before you go down that path. Those are extremely high end, but even a simple steel sheet metal design could satisfy a large percentage of folks concerned about crawling and underbody protection.
That said, as an Engineer and enthusiast off roader, I do challenge some of your claims.
1. The "ramps" appear to be welded, no these do not break, per se, the structural continuity of the single piece bottom, but they do certainly introduce material weakness due to the weld heat affected zones in these strap areas.
2. Without some very significant testing or very advanced simulation you can not conclude that, "Introducing welded seams here would actually create a higher risk than either leaving the straps exposed or protecting them with a boxed solution." This very clearly appears to be a gut feeling rather than any sort of validated conclusion. I'm certainly open to change my opinion here in the presence of any evidence. Indeed welding in recesses is very labor intensive but it doesn't appear to be significantly more so than the ramped/boxed solution you've shown.
3. Lastly this following claim is entirely subjective,
"The boxed protection does have some risk of catching on rocks, but in practice it stays within an acceptable and controllable range."
What is "acceptable" what is "controllable". How much hard, rock crawling type of testing have you subjected the design to? What is acceptable for one client certainly may not be for another.
I'm honestly not trying to be a pain here nor overly critical of this product. It is a product that is absolutely needed (both for 2D and 4D, Raptor and non Raptors). The factory fuel capacities are just terrible. As you saw from my comments prior here in this thread, I have been very supportive and full of praise about this product and design.
It's just that being a reasonably avid crawler, it is hard to see this significant weaknesses in such a fantastic product. Both the straps and the "boxed" solutions are fairly glaring problems for any serious off roaders. You are so darn close here!
I'm sure you have considered additional options, but there are many, some already mentioned:
1. Existing skid plates, factory or aftermarket, likely requiring a somewhat smaller tank.
2. Forming recessed channels into the bottom panel (double jog offset formed via press brake - should be very low cost and require no special tooling, unlike stamping).
3. HDPE ramps, similar to your boxed solution, BUT a single part that entirely covers each strap. Not sure how to robustly attach something like this...
You're a real sport for even bothering to read my ramblings here...
That said, as an Engineer and enthusiast off roader, I do challenge some of your claims.
1. The "ramps" appear to be welded, no these do not break, per se, the structural continuity of the single piece bottom, but they do certainly introduce material weakness due to the weld heat affected zones in these strap areas.
2. Without some very significant testing or very advanced simulation you can not conclude that, "Introducing welded seams here would actually create a higher risk than either leaving the straps exposed or protecting them with a boxed solution." This very clearly appears to be a gut feeling rather than any sort of validated conclusion. I'm certainly open to change my opinion here in the presence of any evidence. Indeed welding in recesses is very labor intensive but it doesn't appear to be significantly more so than the ramped/boxed solution you've shown.
3. Lastly this following claim is entirely subjective,
"The boxed protection does have some risk of catching on rocks, but in practice it stays within an acceptable and controllable range."
What is "acceptable" what is "controllable". How much hard, rock crawling type of testing have you subjected the design to? What is acceptable for one client certainly may not be for another.
I'm honestly not trying to be a pain here nor overly critical of this product. It is a product that is absolutely needed (both for 2D and 4D, Raptor and non Raptors). The factory fuel capacities are just terrible. As you saw from my comments prior here in this thread, I have been very supportive and full of praise about this product and design.
It's just that being a reasonably avid crawler, it is hard to see this significant weaknesses in such a fantastic product. Both the straps and the "boxed" solutions are fairly glaring problems for any serious off roaders. You are so darn close here!
I'm sure you have considered additional options, but there are many, some already mentioned:
1. Existing skid plates, factory or aftermarket, likely requiring a somewhat smaller tank.
2. Forming recessed channels into the bottom panel (double jog offset formed via press brake - should be very low cost and require no special tooling, unlike stamping).
3. HDPE ramps, similar to your boxed solution, BUT a single part that entirely covers each strap. Not sure how to robustly attach something like this...
You're a real sport for even bothering to read my ramblings here...
nah its the rear LCAs always. I have quite a few marks on my gas plate, nothing crazy, but I do agree there at least needs to be a slope angle protection (slider) before the strap location.
it will get hung up long before getting to the arms, its the frame side mount, but I have some new DV8 plates/sliders going on that should help.
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You guys are rocking it. Very refreshing to have folks just listen and consider. Depending on the review from the OP here, consider me a very likely future customer.
Please offer the 2dr version
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Me too! 2 door tank would be great!
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This whole thread has been a joy to keep up with. Really like the direct interaction.
I would second the suggestion above where an external steel skid is mounted outermost, protecting both the tank and its straps. Would be willing to sacrifice some capacity to achieve this even, so long as net capacity improvement over OEM tank is at least 33% increase (27.5gal). That’s more than a Jerry can or largest Rotopax AND its built in so no hassle of roadside or trail side refill and no stale gas that sat too long, or constant need to vent an auxiliary can (gotta burp those Rotopax constantly)
That would increase my full loaded range quite a bit - I’m currently refilling at below 1/4 tank around 250mi and totally empty before 300mi. Just going up to 27gal tank would get me well past 350mi.
I would second the suggestion above where an external steel skid is mounted outermost, protecting both the tank and its straps. Would be willing to sacrifice some capacity to achieve this even, so long as net capacity improvement over OEM tank is at least 33% increase (27.5gal). That’s more than a Jerry can or largest Rotopax AND its built in so no hassle of roadside or trail side refill and no stale gas that sat too long, or constant need to vent an auxiliary can (gotta burp those Rotopax constantly)
That would increase my full loaded range quite a bit - I’m currently refilling at below 1/4 tank around 250mi and totally empty before 300mi. Just going up to 27gal tank would get me well past 350mi.
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We really need the two door version!!!
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Pardon my ignorance if this is a dumb question but how does increased capacity affect the distance to empty gauge on the dash?
Does the car still think it’s a 20 gallon tank? Does it matter? Is there a Forscan setting to increase capacity?
Does the car still think it’s a 20 gallon tank? Does it matter? Is there a Forscan setting to increase capacity?
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I haven’t read through this entire thread, but depending on how the sending unit is situated, I would assume you would just have a full tank much longer and then eventually the tank would start to show less and less fuel until it was empty.
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I don’t think the regular fuel gauge would be affected but I’m assuming the DTE and MPG calculation is based off of the car thinking the tank is 20 gallons. If you increase the capacity, the calculations are off. Not a huge deal but I’m just curious how it’ll integrate.
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