Buy lower trim and modify to upper trim?

[ThunderFlash]

I mean that's kinda the point. Tech for techs sake just complicates life for little benefit.

I would not say there is there is little or no benefit to Sync when it works well. It's very nice to have my Amazon music available, my phone, navigation, killer cameras for all sorts of things, and variations other functionality at my finger tips....including the owners manual if I choose to use it over the hard copy I bought. BUT, it requiring me to stop and restart the vehicle once or twice out of 30 or 40 start-ups because it glitched out is a bit irritating in the moment.

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[dgorsett]

I would not say there is there is little or no benefit to Sync when it works well. It's very nice to have my Amazon music available, my phone, navigation, killer cameras for all sorts of things, and variations other functionality at my finger tips....including the owners manual if I choose to use it over the hard copy I bought. BUT, it requiring me to stop and restart the vehicle once or twice out of 30 or 40 start-ups because it glitched out is a bit irritating in the moment.

All good points. I'm not into tech, and use an mp3 player for music. I do use navigation and onX hunt a little. Android Auto through Bluetooth quit working a year ago or so. I actually don't miss it and hard wire when I want it. When it was working it always defaulted to Googlemaps on start which I found annoying.

 

[bkfit]

FWIW, built mine up do to it being 1st year didn't want any electrical gremlins, 21 BASESQUATCH. 2.7, SWITCHES, MOD BUMPER. 40K miles heavy offroad use.

 

[mpeugeot]

Purchased the 2021 2.7 OBX advanced 4x4 lux package for $48. HD Steering rack was about $1k, 4.7 rear gears and 4.7 M210 FDU was 1.5k, Eibach ProTruck 2.0 suspension was $900.

I guess that I can call it a Sasquatch now.

 

[EvilJim1971]

I would not say there is there is little or no benefit to Sync when it works well. It's very nice to have my Amazon music available, my phone, navigation, killer cameras for all sorts of things, and variations other functionality at my finger tips....including the owners manual if I choose to use it over the hard copy I bought. BUT, it requiring me to stop and restart the vehicle once or twice out of 30 or 40 start-ups because it glitched out is a bit irritating in the moment.

Just rebooting sync doesn't work?

 

[Imaginary Friend]

I don't have the numbers available to me to tell you if you're right or wrong, but all one has to do is look at the overall vehicle market - how many 2 door vehicles, of any make or model, do you see anymore? Very, VERY few that aren't sports cars, and usually high-end ones at that.

2-door vehicles are simply not popular today, and whether that is from years of market manipulation or just the convenience of having easy access to the rear seat, I can't say. But with an estimated 10-25% of Bronco sales being 2-doors, but the tooling costs between 2 doors and 4 doors being roughly the same, the ROI on a 2-door for Ford is not very good because of the lower sales figures. This is basic business strategy - if a product's ROI is low, its likelihood of being cut is high.

Even assuming the 25% sales figure is correct, that still means that it takes 3x longer to pay off the tooling for a 2 door than it does a 4 door. Sure, there are some common parts, but the body tooling, frame tooling, etc. are costly - a single stamping die can cost several million dollars just to MAKE it. Why make a tool that needs to run 6-7 years to pay for it, over a tool that costs roughly the same but is paid for in 2 years?

And 2 door models sit on dealer lots. The dealer we bought ours from had an identical Bronco on the lot at the time, but it was red. That thing just sold THIS SUMMER, and I know that because it was posted about on this forum. Another dealer near me had about a dozen Broncos sitting on the lot this summer...they still have all their 2-doors. The 4-doors move off lots.

From a strictly business perspective, the costs related to having a 2-door and a 4-door model don't really make sense. On the sales side, 4-doors sell to almost everyone, 2-doors sell to a niche market that is probably pretty saturated by now. So not only did the tooling cost more up front, but the sales of the model isn't increasing - it's falling off. Looking at it like this, it just makes business sense to drop the 2-door lineup.

Again, this is all just from analyzing the situation and market history - I have zero numbers from Ford, but really, I don't need them. Historical trends absolutely show that 2-door models, unless they're a high-priced top-end model, don't sell, and don't do a good job covering their up-front costs in a timely fashion.

Do I like the 2-door Bronco (or really, MOST 2-door models of anything) better than a 4-door? Aesthetically, yes. Practically? No, not really, I need to be able to access the back seat rather quickly most of the time.

So I still maintain that I don't expect Ford to continue offering a 2-door model when the refresh comes. The fact that we got a 2-door option at all for the 6th gen models is great...they could have just as easily not offered it at all.

A fair amount of truth there.

If they kill the 2-door, I'll not buy. I wanted to once ('22) then they killed the base model that you could option out nicely, plus the dealers wanted to gouge. Frustrated, I ordered my '23 JL. Then the base came back at a massively inflated price, leaving the Badlands as my only other 2-door choice now (no Atrocity Package, thanks). At $60K+ (no Sas), not happening.

Ford needs to bring back the base 2-door with the full ala carte option list, so I can have my cloth seats and painted roof.....

 

[ThunderFlash]

Just rebooting sync doesn't work?

In all truth, I was not aware of the reboot process until a couple of days ago. Vol+Seek Right for 10 seconds, correct? I will try that next time it happens. It goes to show that while Sync start up issue is an irritation to me, it was not so much so that I felt a need to research resolutions outside of restarting the Bronco.

I'm getting ready to delve into Forscan a bit to try to quell some of my other minor irritations, double honk being the main one. We'll see what kinds of disasters I can create for myself!

 

[crzyhawk]

I don't have the numbers available to me to tell you if you're right or wrong, but all one has to do is look at the overall vehicle market - how many 2 door vehicles, of any make or model, do you see anymore? Very, VERY few that aren't sports cars, and usually high-end ones at that.

2-door vehicles are simply not popular today, and whether that is from years of market manipulation or just the convenience of having easy access to the rear seat, I can't say. But with an estimated 10-25% of Bronco sales being 2-doors, but the tooling costs between 2 doors and 4 doors being roughly the same, the ROI on a 2-door for Ford is not very good because of the lower sales figures. This is basic business strategy - if a product's ROI is low, its likelihood of being cut is high.

Even assuming the 25% sales figure is correct, that still means that it takes 3x longer to pay off the tooling for a 2 door than it does a 4 door. Sure, there are some common parts, but the body tooling, frame tooling, etc. are costly - a single stamping die can cost several million dollars just to MAKE it. Why make a tool that needs to run 6-7 years to pay for it, over a tool that costs roughly the same but is paid for in 2 years?

And 2 door models sit on dealer lots. The dealer we bought ours from had an identical Bronco on the lot at the time, but it was red. That thing just sold THIS SUMMER, and I know that because it was posted about on this forum. Another dealer near me had about a dozen Broncos sitting on the lot this summer...they still have all their 2-doors. The 4-doors move off lots.

From a strictly business perspective, the costs related to having a 2-door and a 4-door model don't really make sense. On the sales side, 4-doors sell to almost everyone, 2-doors sell to a niche market that is probably pretty saturated by now. So not only did the tooling cost more up front, but the sales of the model isn't increasing - it's falling off. Looking at it like this, it just makes business sense to drop the 2-door lineup.

Again, this is all just from analyzing the situation and market history - I have zero numbers from Ford, but really, I don't need them. Historical trends absolutely show that 2-door models, unless they're a high-priced top-end model, don't sell, and don't do a good job covering their up-front costs in a timely fashion.

Do I like the 2-door Bronco (or really, MOST 2-door models of anything) better than a 4-door? Aesthetically, yes. Practically? No, not really, I need to be able to access the back seat rather quickly most of the time.

So I still maintain that I don't expect Ford to continue offering a 2-door model when the refresh comes. The fact that we got a 2-door option at all for the 6th gen models is great...they could have just as easily not offered it at all.

You're 100% right here. This isn't a supply problem, it's a demand problem. I usually work from home, but decided to go into the office this morning. When I am out, I am always looking for the Broncos. I saw three on the road on my way in; 2 Badlands and a Big Bend. In my office parking lot are two more, both Outer Banks. All 5 of them are four doors. The two in my neighborhood that I pass on my way out to the main streets are both 4 doors. You just never see people driving two doors. It's not because people are limited to base and badlands now, and it's not because the v6 is limited to Stroppes. It's because people either do not care about 2 vs 4 doors, or because they actively think that a 4 door is the better purchase.

What enthusiasts say on internet forums be damned; the only votes that matter are with their wallets at the dealership and they are voting for more doors and they are doing it quite religiously.

 

[ThunderFlash]

What enthusiasts say on internet forums be damned; the only votes that matter are with their wallets at the dealership and they are voting for more doors and they are doing it quite religiously.

Your sample is a little biased. "Live Wild" and go to more remote destinations on unimproved roads as the Bronco is supposed to be used, and I'd wager you will observe your fair share of 2-doors. I was out a few months back on trails following a 4-door Badlands on 33s in my 2-door WT on 35s. She was dragging the undercarriage on all sorts of things. Apart from dropping down on a stump, I never touched a thing with my undercarriage, where things like my plastic transmission pan, fuel tank, and transfer case live....all of which I've protected with skids.

Still, I fear the Bronco will morph into a boxy Explorer, also with no 2-door option. So get 'em while you can!

 

[crzyhawk]

No, I don't think it is biased. Most of the videos you see are 4 doors as well. Beyond that, 4WD enthusiasts are not buying most of these. The overwhelming majority are pavement princess, "lifestyle" purchases. I too voted with my wallet: 2 door, manual. I dont think my vote's winning any elections though.

 

[swamp2]

You can make a good case going either way on this honestly - and most of it ends up being situational so may not apply to everyone.

When comparing a lot of base model vehicles to high end trims, it is my observation that it really easy to make a claim that "I can do better for less", whereas in all cases I'm aware of, one simply can not.

• Ford: Bronco Raptor vs. non-Raptor, same with F-150 and Ranger
• BMW: Base 3 or 4 series vs. M3/M4
• Cadilac CTS-V vs. base models
• AMG Mercedes vs. non AMG
• Audi RS vs. A
• Corvette Z06 vs Stingray
• Etc.

Of course we need to keep in mind those with ridiculous claims like "tune a base Bronco, lift it, upgrade the shocks and UCAs, add 37s and it'll take the Raptor"...

I think it depends more on how particular one is as to their mods. It's just too hard to best the economy of scale and purchasing power that the OEM enjoys.

One fairly obvious exception to this "rule" is things like audio and cosmetic upgrades. One can often very well exceed the performance and quality of such options with an aftermarket choice. OEMs margins on these things can get very "juicy" (Porsche as an example).

 

[Brian_B]

When comparing a lot of base model vehicles to high end trims, it is my observation that it really easy to make a claim that "I can do better for less", whereas in all cases I'm aware of, one simply can not.

• Ford: Bronco Raptor vs. non-Raptor, same with F-150 and Ranger
• BMW: Base 3 or 4 series vs. M3/M4
• Cadilac CTS-V vs. base models
• AMG Mercedes vs. non AMG
• Audi RS vs. A
• Corvette Z06 vs Stingray
• Etc.

Of course we need to keep in mind those with ridiculous claims like "tune a base Bronco, lift it, upgrade the shocks and UCAs, add 37s and it'll take the Raptor"...

I think it depends more on how particular one is as to their mods. It's just too hard to best the economy of scale and purchasing power that the OEM enjoys.

Well…

There are other things to consider. If you are looking strictly at OEM vs OEM - yes, I agree, with an obvious exception of someone who is patient and/or lucky and can get takeoffs/salvage for much cheaper than new parts, and able to do the work themselves. Which is an important exception, as that describes a lot of folks on this forum.

There is also the case of someone who isn’t interested or intending to use OEM upgrades and is looking at aftermarket performance. If you don’t consider income from gray market sale of the OEM equipment (and even in many cases, even if you do) - then it just doesn’t make sense to upgrade factory equipment if it’s just getting ripped off anyway.

There is the classic “Why buy Badlands SAS” case. The price difference isn’t a large as it used to be, but at one point it was almost $5k for what amounted to just a 35” tire upgrade.

And the pauper case (or the “didn’t know what I’m getting into” case) - can’t afford a fully kitted out Wildtrak or Badlands - but get into a nice used lower trim and just piecemeal the upgrades over time. Sure you may pay more strictly looking at dollars, but there is the access and time of ownership aspect there as well.

My case was I didn’t custom order and had a limited window to purchase - so I got what was available within my budget at the time. That is somewhat niche as I had a company perk to use toward a personal vehicle but it was getting phased out so use it or lose it. (And if I’m honest a case of didn’t know what I was getting into thrown In there)

I agree that most of the time it’s probably better to factory upgrade - but I wouldn’t say always. Just a few examples off the top of my head versus the “it’s always better to factory upgrade” notion.

 

[swamp2]

Very valid scenarios @Brian_B . My point, as I think you understood, is just can you best the value and performance for less cost, parts and labor.

 

[MNBigfoot]

When comparing a lot of base model vehicles to high end trims, it is my observation that it really easy to make a claim that "I can do better for less", whereas in all cases I'm aware of, one simply can not...........

Early MY22, what was the difference performance wise between my Base 2.7/Sas and the highest trim (Wildtrak)?

 

[swamp2]

Early MY22, what was the difference performance wise between my Base 2.7/Sas and the highest trim (Wildtrak)?

By performance I certainly do not mean drag racing on asphalt. I'm not an expert on all of the individual components across all years and models of Bronco's but nonetheless, I would be willing to bet, that when push comes to shove on a wide variety of difficult off-road terrain, the Wildtrack would eat your lunch and it would do so because it has a wide diversity of components, all well integrated, that are superior to the base model.

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