Yay! Adding my MIC top failure to the list!

[swamp2]

The painted top is NOT a painted Mic top. Different construction.

I was under the impression that largely the same basic construction with paint on the outside and some mostly cosmetic changes on the interior.

Can you provide any evidence to the contrary and to support your claim?

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[swamp2]

But you can. Grind down the substrate, sand it, couple coats of high build, paint, done

What part of my explanation about the problem being more than surface deep did you miss or ignore?

 

[Beach_Bum]

I was under the impression that largely the same basic construction with paint on the outside and some mostly cosmetic changes on the interior.

Can you provide any evidence to the contrary and to support your claim?

The MIC, Modular and Painted HT share the same underlying core. The difference is the MIC has a thermoplastic resin shell. The modular and painted HT has a SMC (Sheet Molding Compound for the outer shell. I distinguish between the modular and painted HT as there technically is no longer a modular HT. The removable windows that made it "modular" are no longer. They were only available for MY'23 HE/HELs and Job1 MY'24 HE/HELs.

 

[eighty6gt]

What part of my explanation about the glass being more than surface deep did you miss or ignore?

I solve problems for a living.

 

[swamp2]

The MIC, Modular and Painted HT share the same underlying core. The difference is the MIC has a thermoplastic resin shell. The modular and painted HT has a SMC (Sheet Molding Compound for the outer shell. I distinguish between the modular and painted HT as there technically is no longer a modular HT. The removable windows that made it "modular" are no longer. They were only available for MY'23 HE/HELs and Job1 MY'24 HE/HELs.

Thanks. The only nearly direct reference I can find to the painted top being SMC is from a old post here from an employee of the company making the outer material for the MIC top. He did say his company was not providing the material for the painted top. The MIC top shell is Polyacetal, also known as acetal or polyoxymethylene (POM). I also learned that Delrin is a trade name for POM so I guess this material has 5 names.... This material is indeed a thermoplastic as you stated. I wouldn't quite call this direct evidence that the painted top shell is SMC. Perhaps you have better evidence/proof?

I got my information in part from this old thread. It look like that source, @Ksjrb03 is still active here. Maybe he can help. I suspect that with the ongoing top issues, he will have to be largely mum...

Hopefully, everything will come out when the eventual class action happens .

Lastly, I'm not convinced that painted tops will be immune from all of the broad array of problems the MIC tops have had.

 

[Beach_Bum]

Thanks. The only nearly direct reference I can find to the painted top being SMC is from a old post here from an employee of the company making the outer material for the MIC top. He did say his company was not providing the material for the painted top. The MIC top shell is Polyacetal, also known as acetal or polyoxymethylene (POM). I also learned that Delrin is a trade name for POM so I guess this material has 5 names.... This material is indeed a thermoplastic as you stated. I wouldn't quite call this direct evidence that the painted top shell is SMC. Perhaps you have better evidence/proof?

I got my information in part from this old thread. It look like that source, @Ksjrb03 is still active here. Maybe he can help. I suspect that with the ongoing top issues, he will have to be largely mum...

Hopefully, everything will come out when the eventual class action happens .

Lastly, I'm not convinced that painted tops will be immune from all of the broad array of problems the MIC tops have had.

I think the biggest issue with the MIC is the manufacturing tolerance of the outer coating. There are thousands upon thousands of them out there in the wild. Yes, there are problems and those that experience problems are the most likely to post about it. But that doesn't mean that every MIC out there is a ticking time bomb.

The coating/shell is far too thin in many cases where the underlying cardboard core is seen through often referred to as "snakeskin". In some cases, the shell adhesion to the core fails causing bubbles and wavy appearance. And then the most common issue is the spider cracks prevalent around the rear window.

It seems that the SMC shell is substantially thicker imparting additional rigidity to the top. The modular/painted HTs have only been in service for a few years (MY'23 the earliest). But there has been no reported issues that I've heard of. It stands to reason that the thicker shell prevents the "snakeskin" and spider cracks. There likely is also different adhesive applied to the core and SMC shell preventing bubbles/wavy appearance.

Ford really needs to discontinue the MIC on future MY Broncos. The design with the manufacturing tolerance has proven to be susceptible to failure. Replacing tops with a failed design leads to future replacement. It is a costly cycle. A member just had their rear top replaced. No way that should have been taken out of the crate or even passed QC before being shipped to the dealer.

They would be better served to offer a painted top at a cost difference to those affected with a defective top. For those that have had no issues, Ford should offer FordPass Rewards much like they did to FE reservation holders when the painted top was not going to be produced. Anyone accepting a replacement top or the FP Rewards would be required to waive holding Ford responsible in the future. That would stem any class action litigation.

 

[swamp2]

I think the biggest issue with the MIC is the manufacturing tolerance of the outer coating. There are thousands upon thousands of them out there in the wild. Yes, there are problems and those that experience problems are the most likely to post about it. But that doesn't mean that every MIC out there is a ticking time bomb.

The coating/shell is far too thin in many cases where the underlying cardboard core is seen through often referred to as "snakeskin". In some cases, the shell adhesion to the core fails causing bubbles and wavy appearance. And then the most common issue is the spider cracks prevalent around the rear window.

It seems that the SMC shell is substantially thicker imparting additional rigidity to the top. The modular/painted HTs have only been in service for a few years (MY'23 the earliest). But there has been no reported issues that I've heard of. It stands to reason that the thicker shell prevents the "snakeskin" and spider cracks. There likely is also different adhesive applied to the core and SMC shell preventing bubbles/wavy appearance.

Ford really needs to discontinue the MIC on future MY Broncos. The design with the manufacturing tolerance has proven to be susceptible to failure. Replacing tops with a failed design leads to future replacement. It is a costly cycle. A member just had their rear top replaced. No way that should have been taken out of the crate or even passed QC before being shipped to the dealer.

They would be better served to offer a painted top at a cost difference to those affected with a defective top. For those that have had no issues, Ford should offer FordPass Rewards much like they did to FE reservation holders when the painted top was not going to be produced. Anyone accepting a replacement top or the FP Rewards would be required to waive holding Ford responsible in the future. That would stem any class action litigation.

Great post and info. I largely agree. Specifically, it is likely that not all MIC tops will fail. Whats odd is that with all of the huge beefy tooling that is used (see the Webasto pics from their (ironic) award article). I'm sure rigid, precision, CNC tooling is used for the outer mold line. So how they can't hold tolerances is odd.

It's great that there hasn't been reported failures of any painted tops. Not only should they discontinue MIC tops, anyone with a failed one should get a no cost upgrade to painted.

Fingers crossed that I was wrong above and we don't see any failures of this kind with painted.

 

[UniBroncorn]

It’s not a TSB, it’s a GSB.

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...o-roof-concern-analysis-1-05-24-update.82260/

Thanks

Why in the fuck does Ford not cover spider cracks?

 

[Ducati1098]

Thanks

Why in the fuck does Ford not cover spider cracks?

They do. The normal small cracks seen on some hard tops is shown in the GSB as a warrantable repair.

 

[rgraphic]

I think the biggest issue with the MIC is the manufacturing tolerance of the outer coating. There are thousands upon thousands of them out there in the wild. Yes, there are problems and those that experience problems are the most likely to post about it. But that doesn't mean that every MIC out there is a ticking time bomb.

The coating/shell is far too thin in many cases where the underlying cardboard core is seen through often referred to as "snakeskin". In some cases, the shell adhesion to the core fails causing bubbles and wavy appearance. And then the most common issue is the spider cracks prevalent around the rear window.

It seems that the SMC shell is substantially thicker imparting additional rigidity to the top. The modular/painted HTs have only been in service for a few years (MY'23 the earliest). But there has been no reported issues that I've heard of. It stands to reason that the thicker shell prevents the "snakeskin" and spider cracks. There likely is also different adhesive applied to the core and SMC shell preventing bubbles/wavy appearance.

Ford really needs to discontinue the MIC on future MY Broncos. The design with the manufacturing tolerance has proven to be susceptible to failure. Replacing tops with a failed design leads to future replacement. It is a costly cycle. A member just had their rear top replaced. No way that should have been taken out of the crate or even passed QC before being shipped to the dealer.

They would be better served to offer a painted top at a cost difference to those affected with a defective top. For those that have had no issues, Ford should offer FordPass Rewards much like they did to FE reservation holders when the painted top was not going to be produced. Anyone accepting a replacement top or the FP Rewards would be required to waive holding Ford responsible in the future. That would stem any class action litigation.

You should be running Webasto. I wish I were joking.

 

[Beach_Bum]

You should be running Webasto. I wish I were joking.

So do I - wish you were joking.

 

[eighty6gt]

I have an industrial sewing machine and jute/hemp fabric, dye.... I can start producing quality soft tops!

 

[DragonWolf7]

So much to comment on...



So you believe that the very most outer layer of the MIC top is the ONLY problem with it? When we have bubbling, cracking, delamination, core bleed/imprinting? I would be willing to place a very large woger that top problems will occur on painted ones as well. They are just a bit newer so a bit longer to wait.



See above. You can't put lipstick on a pig and have any expectations. It's not a problem of the outer most surface or the sealing of that surface. All this would do it create a layer to hide SOME of the failure modes of the top.



That's the best example of the false cause fallacy I've heard in a while. See below.





Yes as to a reason not to wash in that way, absolutely.

Ford has a very low static and dynamic weight limit for a rack on the roof, as it is flimsy. JCR make a stiffening kit which changes the load path from the rack through the MIC top to the body TO roof rack to roll bar, thus significantly increasing the load capability of the rack. I have it, it's a bit hard to install and align perfectly, but absolutely does the job well as designed/intended.

Yeah I was just throwing ideas out there because I haven’t had the issue at all. Just been trying to help others find out why it was happening, and the few people I’ve seen around us who have had this issue, have been not hand washing the vehicle so it was a theory.
But the weight limit makes more sense because you’re correct, they put those weights for a reason; and if you wanna jump up on that middle part enough times Im sure it would break in half.

 

[jrollo7]

The MIC, Modular and Painted HT share the same underlying core. The difference is the MIC has a thermoplastic resin shell. The modular and painted HT has a SMC (Sheet Molding Compound for the outer shell. I distinguish between the modular and painted HT as there technically is no longer a modular HT. The removable windows that made it "modular" are no longer. They were only available for MY'23 HE/HELs and Job1 MY'24 HE/HELs.

I assume that SMC “sheet molding compound” hopefully provides for a fiberglass/metal like roof that is stronger, better, less prone to the MIC/honeycomb type problems of cracking, wearing, fracturing ,etc.?

 

[Beach_Bum]

I assume that SMC “sheet molding compound” hopefully provides for a fiberglass/metal like roof that is stronger, better, less prone to the MIC/honeycomb type problems of cracking, wearing, fracturing ,etc.?

We can all hope. There has been no reported incidents with any of the MY'23 HE/HELs. The mod top share the same underlying core as the MIC.

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